NASA finds 7 new planets

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  • #619311

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    NASA today:

    Three of them may be habitable! Imagine Shabbos on another planet.

    #1219289

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Is it out obligation to teach and bring Torah on new planets if only people who aren’t Jewish initially live there?

    #1219290

    huju
    Participant

    I’m sure that there are Jews on every planet that has life as we know it.

    Why did Hashem omit these planets from Bareshis?

    #1219291

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Bereshis makes no mention of 6 Planets or in fact a count of any planets

    #1219292

    misteryudi
    Participant

    As Jews, it would be problematic to our theology if any exoplanet is found to contain intelligent life forms, since the basis of our creation beliefs focus solely on Earth being the center of the universe, for all intents and purposes. Plant or animal life may not be as big of an issue.

    Also, there are many additional criteria that must be met in order for an exoplanet to be able to contain life as we know it, such as having a large outer planet being able to deflect most space debris that comes your way, having a moon to control tides and also deflect debris, having the exoplanet tilt on its axis to allow for variations in climate, and many others. So just finding a planet in the goldilocks zone is not enough.

    #1219293

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Misteryudi, why does there need to be variation in climate for life as we know it? There’s life in San Diego.

    #1219294

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I don’t see why it’s necessarily problematic according to the Torah to say there can be life on other planets.

    The earth is the center of the universe for us. But a different planet might be the center of the universe for others.

    There are so many things that we are clueless about. We live in a bubble, here on our own litte planet….

    But why does anyone think there is life on these planets? Is that what the scientists are saying? (not that they can’t be wrong – I am just wondering where this is even coming from).

    #1219295

    misteryudi
    Participant

    yehudayona, there can be specific areas without changes in temperature/ climate. But not the entire planet. We need seasons and climates in order to have food and water, so without the variety, life couldn’t exist as we know it. Google it for a more detailed analysis.

    #1219296

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Earth is not the center of the Universe, its not even the center of the Solar System

    #1219297

    golfer
    Participant

    Zdad I think you’re alluding to the fact that the earth revolves around the sun.

    Even taking that into consideration though, as we humans observe the universe with our eyes or telescopes from here on earth, that makes the earth the center of the universe to us. The universe is vast, and from our perspective we are at the center, even as we seem to revolve around the sun.

    The heliocentric diagrams you saw in science class might have helped explain things, but you can place the earth at the center of the diagram too. It’s just like the globe your geography teacher used that always put Antarctica at the bottom; you could put the penguins in the middle or on top and still get a representation of the placement of the continents and oceans.

    Am I making you dizzy?

    #1219298

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    misteryudi: Pish posh.

    Please see Rabbi Tzvi Freeman from Chabad’s explanation:

    #1219299

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Plus here is the second portion of Rabbi Freeman’s support:

    Shortly after the first moon landing, the Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, of blessed memory, pointed out6 that there is support in Torah for the notion that life exists on other planets. Furthermore, we can know something about that life through deduction from what the Torah tells us. Here is his argument:

    <ZAP>

    #1219300

    misteryudi
    Participant

    lightbrite: If you look more closely at that article on Chabad’s website, you’ll actually see that he agrees with me 100%. The quote you pulled is discussing life, in a more general state. Not intelligent life.

    Further down in the article, he states “…although it is quite possible there is life on other planets, that life would not be intelligent in a way similar to human life and culture.” Which was exactly my point.

    So thank you for sourcing an article that agrees with my original comment.

    #1219301

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    was this comment “The Earth is not the center of the Universe, its not even the center of the Solar System ”

    in response to

    “The earth is the center of the universe for us.”?

    Because you apparently completely misunderstood what that poster said. You did not read or understand that last 2 words of the sentence.

    #1219302

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Golfer

    We have sent Satellites into Space, notably Voyager 1 & 2 and New Horizons.

    So they have sent back photographs of Earth from their positions. Voyager 2 I belive has hit the Kuiper Belt . And from that view you can see that the earth revolves around the sun and get a different view of the universe

    #1219303

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    While the earth revolves around the Sun, it seems some posters revovle around me , sort of like I am the center of their universe

    #1219304

    Meno
    Participant

    While the earth revolves around the Sun, it seems some posters revovle around me , sort of like I am the center of their universe

    How romantic

    #1219305

    Perhaps, but I don’t think he meant it lovingly. And I thought it was a cute comment ZD.

    #1219306

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    golfer

    “Even taking that into consideration though, as we humans observe the universe with our eyes or telescopes from here on earth, that makes the earth the center of the universe to us. The universe is vast, and from our perspective we are at the center,”

    you dont need to observe the universe to reach that mistaken conclusion. A person is always the center of what he can observe. Right now wherever you are you can see equally in all directions aropund you (if you remove walls and furniture in your way) That doesnt make you the center of the universe.

    #1219307

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Thanks -29.

    #1219308

    golfer
    Participant

    See the mefarshim on Iyov’s words,

    “Toleh eretz al blimah”

    All the heavenly bodies are in constant motion. Look at the night sky.

    Even if we see the earth revolve around the sun, that doesn’t prove that the earth is not the center.

    #1219309

    lesschumras
    Participant

    LU, the article did not say there was life on these planets. It said it found 3 Earth sized planets that that orbited in the same zone from their star that the earth does from the Sun It opens the possibility that life MIGHT exist there, but doesn’t guarantee it

    #1219311

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    NASA says that the 3 planets have habitable conditions, where the potential for life to exist.

    That’s exciting b/c back in the day, of all those 9 then 8 then 9 planets, it seemed like life as we know it couldn’t exist on planets that all had their limitations on fulfilling our needs.

    #1219312

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The reason why they removed Pluto is there were other celestial bodies in the Solar System similar to Pluto like Ceres. In fact Ceres is bigger than Pluto

    #1219313

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    misteryudi,

    As Jews, it would be problematic to our theology if any exoplanet is found to contain intelligent life forms, since the basis of our creation beliefs focus solely on Earth being the center of the universe, for all intents and purposes. Plant or animal life may not be as big of an issue.

    I disagree. The Torah does not openly inform us whether there is “intelligent” life on other worlds or not. Why should it be problematic therefore if it were so? The basis of our Torah beliefs focuses almost solely on the Jewish people and the environment of Eretz Yisroel. Were Native Americans a challenge to our “theology”? Or the southern hemisphere, where planting happens around Sukkos time and harvesting around Pesach? Or northern Alaska, where during the summer there is no shkia at all?

    Also, there are many additional criteria that must be met in order for an exoplanet to be able to contain life as we know it, such as having a large outer planet being able to deflect most space debris that comes your way, having a moon to control tides and also deflect debris, having the exoplanet tilt on its axis to allow for variations in climate, and many others. So just finding a planet in the goldilocks zone is not enough.

    Much life on Earth requires seasonal variability because that life was designed to live on Earth. Why project that criteria elsewhere? Do tubeworms living by deep ocean vents need seasons? Also, the presence of high gravity planets in a star system is not the only way to reduce impacts. And how does the Moon reduce impacts? And would alien life living in a subsurface ocean environment heated by tidal expansion/contractions care about impacts at all?

    #1219314

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    “Center” is a relative term. The relationship between Hashem and the Jewish people is at the center of Torah, even though the Jewish people are a tiny fraction of the global population. Yerushalayim is the center of much of our mitzvos, even though it is not at the Earth’s (or even today’s Jewish) geographic population center.

    #1219315

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Clarification on planting: spring crops are planted around Sukkos time in the southern hemisphere. Winter crops (e.g., hard red winter wheat) in Eretz Yisroel that are planted after Sukkos are planted around Pesach time in the southern hemisphere.

    #1219316

    misteryudi
    Participant

    Avram, excellent points.

    First off – The Torah’s Creation story implies that God’s work was intended for those on Earth. Does it prove that there is no intelligent life elsewhere? No, but I feel that it is implied. One can make other deductions as they see fit, but that is how I see it.

    Second – All I said was “life as we know it,” referring to the common lifeforms of our environment. You are right about any other kinds of life.

    Third – The moon’s gravity does indeed protect the Earth from incoming space debris, including asteroids. Just look at how many impact craters it has.

    #1219317

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    misteryudi,

    Third – The moon’s gravity does indeed protect the Earth from incoming space debris, including asteroids. Just look at how many impact craters it has.

    The moon has so many impact craters because it is much less dynamic than the Earth, with no atmosphere/ocean system to burn up smaller incoming debris and cause erosion of impact craters that do occur, less volcanic activity, etc.

    #1219318

    misteryudi
    Participant

    Avram, all true. But that doesn’t clash with my statement that the moon’s gravity does protect the Earth from incoming space debris.

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