August 18, 2017 8:29 am at 8:29 am #1341628
National Socialism is a left-wing ideology. As is Neo-Nazism.August 18, 2017 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1341729Matan1Participant
Naziism was not socialist. The name is drawn from party members in the 20’s who were socialist. Nazi ideology went though many changes, especially in the 20’s, when there were left wing party members who advocated a socialist Germany, like the Strasser brothers. But those sides lost out.August 18, 2017 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1342538mw13Participant
I don’t care if their Left or Right – I just want them to be Gone.August 19, 2017 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1342701ChortkovParticipant
לא תסור מן הדבר אשר יגידו לך ימין ושמאל – New interpretation :- Do not stray from what they tell you to the Right or to the Left.August 19, 2017 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1342723yytzParticipant
The only respect in which Nazis were left-wing was that they favored government intervention in the economy. But they weren’t in favor of other economic-left ideas, like labor unions, greater economic equality, worker’s participation in governing the economy, etc. In fact, they were violently opposed to such things, and the Nazis came into power in part by claiming that they needed to be in power to keep the communists from overthrowing capitalism. So it doesn’t make much sense to call them leftists even solely on economic grounds.
Extreme nationalism (like the Nazis, blaming foreigners and Jews for all their problems and wanting to kill or enslave all non-Aryans) is universally considered right wing, because the political right in general is considered more nationalistic (more in favor of war, puffing up national pride, blaming problems on others, etc.) than the left.August 20, 2017 1:07 am at 1:07 am #1342789Avi KParticipant
Yytz, the Communists also banned trade unions other than their figurehead unions. Moreover, Hitler ym”s railed against capitalism and encouraged cartels. Basically, fascist economic theory states that all economic activity must be directed by the state even though it remains nominally in private hands (dirigism).
As for workers’ participation in the economy, the fact of the matter is that the main shareholders in the US are employee pension funds. There is even an ideology called “libertarian socialism” which favors organization of businesses as workers’ cooperatives without government interference. Would you call this leftist or rightist?August 20, 2017 11:50 am at 11:50 am #1342878yytzParticipant
Libertarian socialism is leftist because its goal is to replace capitalism (that is, the ownership of the means of production by elite capitalists) by the collective democratic ownership and management of capital. It is basically an anti-authoritarian version of capitalism (as are many anarchist philosophies.)
OK, communists suppressed free unions, but if you look at the most leftist democratic countries today, like in Scandinavia, 80% of the working population is unionized. Free unions and economic equality are a major part of leftist economic ideology. So Nazism was leftist in one economic respect but not others, and was rightist in terms of nationalism (and for that matter, social conservatism — they were against toeiva and were anti-feminist and pronatalist.)
People who identify as mainstream conservatives should not feel hurt when people point out the threat from far-right extremism. They have almost nothing in common ideologically (perhaps aside from liking Trump). But for some reason they seem to want to minimize the threat (just as nonviolent leftists are reluctant to acknowledge the real threat from left-wing extremism). It’s a psychological thing, I guess.
We should focus on Torah and mitzvos and our avodas Hashem this world–timeless things of eternal value–and not focus on identifying with and debating all these transient political movements and ideologies.
We would all benefit from reading Koheles every day, not just once a year. Debating politics all day, as many people do nowadays, is truly havel havalim. It is like obsessing over palace intrigues. How much Torah could we have learned instead of squabbling about meaningless details? Rachmana litzlan.August 20, 2017 12:33 pm at 12:33 pm #1342996
Many top Nazi leaders were toeiva people.August 20, 2017 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1343036👑RebYidd23Participant
So were many victims.August 20, 2017 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #1343079
They’re chayiv misa.August 20, 2017 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1343100👑RebYidd23Participant
Even by your standards, only some of them.August 20, 2017 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1343108
I don’t set standards; “my” standards are the Torah’s standards. Yes, using secular nomenclature what I indicated only applies to some of them. Though, those some is whom I’m referring to. That being said, nevertheless, even the others who aren’t chayiv that are still considered reshoyim according to the Torah and are chayiv lesser punishments. Come to think of it, for gentiles they’re all chayiv misa since (even where those Jews that aren’t chayiv for that) gentiles are in the case of violating any of the Sheva Mitzvos — and any iteration violates their fourth mitzvah/obligation.August 21, 2017 10:32 am at 10:32 am #1343483Avi KParticipant
Yytz, then you consider the stock market to be a leftist institution?
1. Marriage for gentiles is only an agreement to live together. Once one of them walks out they are considered divorced.
2. There has to be at least one witness to an act.
3. Ramban says regarding Shimon and Levy that Noahide judges may decline to hear cases because of fear. There is also an opinion that their judges have discretion to impose lesser penalties (Chelkat Yoav Tanyana 14 – and see Iggerot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:68 that even a murderer should not be executed if he killed in the heat of anger but only because of a cruel nature or disregard for the aveira or if there is a general disregard fore this).
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