Neckties

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  • #617355

    flatbusher
    Participant

    It seems that a necktie is the one accessory through which a person can make a statement. So what do you like to wear? Bright colors? Stripes? Muted?

    BTW, I am always surprised when I hear how much yeshiva bochurim will spend on the tie. Given their proclivity for getting dirty, I probably will stick with the under $10 rack

    #1142944

    akuperma
    Participant

    One can pick a tie to send a message (support a team, a movement/party/candidate, announce one’s profession or avocation). Or pick a plain tie to match one’s clothes. If you want to spend much more than $15 for a tie, you’ll have to look for a really fancy store, and unless its to get one with a specific design no one will know the difference.

    #1142945

    flatbusher
    Participant

    Really not hard to find a store that sells tie $35, $75 or more. Last few years there seems to be a trend toward very brightly colored ties, and not just among the young. What kind of statement does that make for an older person?

    #1142946

    bright colors worn by older people give the impression of looking old versus when work by younger people it give more attraction & sticks out more then dark ties

    #1142947

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “It seems that a necktie is the one accessory through which a person can make a statement.”

    Have you tried socks, glasses, sweaters, sunglasses? Women who dont wear neckties, generally, might also chime in with hair accessories, jewelry, boots and the like (although a woman with a necktie would be quite a statement too).

    #1142948

    flatbusher
    Participant

    I’m not sure glasses count as an accessory and sweaters are garments. As for socks, seen a lot of weird patterns and colored socks on people of all ages.

    #1142949

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    I only wear silk ties. I don’t like the look or feel of man made materials. That said the silk tie also holds a knot better than polyester. I wear a tie that suits my mood and the occasion. Mostly dark colored, and sometimes I buy two of the same and have my hatter convert one to a matching hat band.

    BTW>>>my great grandfather was a tie manufacturer, he set my grandfather (his SIL) up in the shirt business. When I was young we sold both lines in my father’s clothing stores. This was known as vertical integration. The government stopped oil companies and movie studios from doing this, but not the garment industry.

    #1142950

    flatbusher
    Participant

    I like silk ties, too, mostly conservative, stripes or muted pattern, to match my various suits.

    CT: Interesting story. Speaking of shirts, I really dislike 100% cotton shirts. Unless you send them to the dry cleaners they never look great and they crease so easily. I know they have 100% cotton that are wrinkle free, but I still prefer the blend.

    #1142951

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    flatbusher….

    I wear 100% cotton shirts. I am blessed with a teen-aged daughter who finds ironing very relaxing.

    #1142952

    flatbusher
    Participant

    you like them full cut? slim fit?

    #1142953

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Flatbusher………..

    Nothing about me is slim.

    I have my shirts custom made for me, same with suits and slacks. I’ve done this since we left the clothing business in 1976. The initial cost is higher than off the rack, but they last far longer and are far more comfortable. It is not unusual for me to put on a dress shirt that was made 10 or 12 years ago. Granted I keep about 3 dozen shirts in my daily rotation.

    #1142954

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Proud to say I have not worn a tie (or a suit, for that matter) in close to 9 years. I’m not sure I even have any ties in my closet.

    #1142955

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Neckties are just a more grown-up version of a bib.

    #1142956

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    RebYidd23

    If you think that neckties are just a more grown up version of a bib you do not know the historical development of neckties and their decorations.

    Neckties became a way for former military members to show their past association when wearing civilian dress. The diagonally striped ties are know as Regimental or Reps. The particular color combinations told others which regiment of the British army you had served in.

    Similarly there are school ties and club ties. When the average prep school or Ivy League student or graduate was wearing a Navy Blue Wool Blazer, grey flannel slacks and a white shirt, the emblems on the navy tie told others which school he had attended or which fraternity he had joined.

    After Yeshiva I attended an Ivy League University and law school. Those symbols on my ties were very useful in making business connections as a young lawyer. What today is seen by most as a fashion item started as a means of rank and identification.

    Even to this day in better mens stores in the UK sales of striped ties are often restricted to former members of the particular regiment. I can remember 40 years ago wearing a striped tie I had bought in NY while on a business tripe to London. A retired miltary man who had heard my Yankee accent while observing the stripes on my tied took offense that I was wearing a tie without a tie to his regiment.

    #1142957

    flatbusher
    Participant

    i’ve been tempted to get custom made but most things off the rack don’t require more than cuffs, but I wonder if it would make a big difference if custom made.

    #1142958

    apushatayid
    Participant

    So sweaters are a garment. I think e can still wear one that makes a statement. I think the pants one chooses to wear make a statement too. N

    #1142959

    Sam2
    Participant

    Neckties are Chukas Akum.

    #1142960

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Flatbusher……..

    I don’t have an off the rack body.

    If you truly feel that just adjusting length on an off the rack garment leaves you with the feeling that the garment hangs properly on your body, moves smoothly with your every movement and has no spots where it either hangs loosely or is a bit too clingy, then off the rack is fine.

    If, however, you can afford it, and want to choose the fabric, colors, collar, fit, shoulder style, padding, the rise of the slacks, etc. and have a custom suit and shirts…the chances are you will not go back to off the rack.

    The quality is such that they tend to last longer than off the rack and if you wear classic styles they will be in your clothing rotation for many years.

    My tailor has all my measurements. Often I stop in only to pick fabrics. Sometimes, I buy fabrics when traveling and the tailor only provides labor.

    These days I typically pay about $1200 for a 3 piece suit and $45 for long sleeves shirts (ordered by the 1/2 dozen) plus material. Interfacing, linings, buttons and trim are included in the labor price. All have my name embroidered inside the garment and shirts have my monogram on the sleeve cuff.

    The midnight blue suit with a burgundy pinstripe I wore to a political event last night is about 10 years old. It looks as if it was made last month. It shows no wear and has held its shape beautifully. The pants are constructed with a 5 inch high gripper band to hold my shirt tails in place and have suspender buttons in the pants. I wore a white background shirt that had the same burgundy pinstripe as the suit. A burgundy toe with midnight blue emblems completed the outfit. This was appropriate for the occasion or court or seeing clients in my law office. As I’ve explained in the oast, when I was a young lawyer starting out, a wise mentor told me ‘only the judges wear black’ I wear midnight blue or charcoal gray to court. My Shabbos suits are black

    #1142961

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL: What’s your hourly rate?

    #1142962

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph…………

    It varies with the task.

    If I do the work (senior partner) it is more expensive than if it is done by an associate or paralegal..

    Most in office work for established clients is billed at $350 per hour. Trial work is generally $525 per hour (8 hour day minimums-as I have to clear my calendar and am at the beck and call of the judge).

    None of this is for criminal work, which I don’t do. Some things are flat rate: adoption, divorce, wills, trusts, probate.

    These rates are comparable for established (over age 50 lawyers) in my area…certainly less than NYC rates.

    That said, it’s important to realize that billing rates don’t equal profit. All the overhead/expenses of the form have tgo come out of the revenue.

    Many long time clients get preferential rates and we do a great deal of pro bono work as well.

    I have not raised rates since 2010 and don’t expect to do so before I retire. My children who will take over the practice will decide what they’ll charge when they are the bosses.

    #1142964

    flatbusher
    Participant

    I guess it’s nice to have clothing last that long but what if your body changes? 10-12 years is a long time for a person to stay the same.

    #1142965

    IvduEsHashemBsimcha
    Participant

    Sam: Rav Schachter said that Rav Soloveitchik thought they might be, but then he (Rav Soloveitchik) said since they’re worn by everyone nowadays and not just one particular nation, they aren’t. I am 100% serious.

    #1142966

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Flatbusher……

    I’m a father and grandfather approaching retirement. My body has changed over the years, but I weight within 15 lbs of when I was 18. My wedding suit still fits…we took an anniversary picture wearing our wedding clothing last year.

    Unlike off the rack clothing, custom clothing (not shirts) are made with ample seam allowances so that alterations can me made for some realistic body changes.

    An off the rack pair of slacks might have a 1/2″ seam allowance in the seat and a 2″ hem. A custom will have a 2-3″ seam allowance and a 3-4″ hem. After all the customer pays for the material so it doesn’t cut into manufacturer’s profit. Having grown up in the garment business I know all about squeezing every possible garment out of a roll of fabric.

    #1142967

    flatbusher
    Participant

    As I said I have been tempted to get a custom suit thinking it would be more flattering than off the rack, but it’s the expense and the fact that my body does change. What I find interesting is how suit manufacturers don’t seem to have uniform size, so a 42 R of one maker doesn’t fit the same as from another. In the past couple of years I switched from a Regular to a SHort (shrinking over age) and I found the jacket fits much better, especially in sleeve length. On the other hand I have had athletic cut suits of R that also fit perfectly

    #1142968

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    The US government doesn’t have standardized sizes required by law(some countries do).

    There has been size creep over the years.A pair of size 40 pants today is substantially bigger than 15 years ago.

    In the 1960s women knew that for every $10 more they spent on a dress they went down one size.

    The reality of clothing production is that time is money. Workers are paid piece work, not a flat hourly wage. A sewing machine operator will sew the wrong size label into a garment rather than wait for a bundle girl to bring the correct ones. One operator leave 1/8″ seam allowance, another 1/4″.

    Typically sewing floor inspectors are operators who have become too old and slow to profitably operate machines. Instead they inspect: trim loose threads and look for major defects. They don’t measure garments for size accuracy.

    When I left the garment business in 1980, major retailers would spot check one garment per hundred dozen for size within tolerances.

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