August 18, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #598717
Hi guys, I have a predicament I needed to ask for some advice about. This past year I was engaged to someone, and for one reason or another it did not work. We broke it off about four months ago, and now I have really started to move on and date again. At the time of the breakup, which happened due to do her mental instability issues, many in her circles including some of her best friends reached out to me and wished me the best, knowing that I was a good guy throughout and treated her well.
One of her (my ex fiancee) closest friends was really always very nice to both of us, and while i was engaged, we tried to set her up with a few of my friends, but it never worked out. Recently, a friend of mine had suggested that perhaps I should ask her out, and truthfully as I have thought about it more and more, she really has a wonderful heart and many of the qualities I have looked for. When I was engaged , I used to always tell myself how this friend really deserves the best.
Now, how would I go about asking her out? She knows that I am a good guy, and she saw how well I treated her friend. Not to mention, her friend use to say amazing things about me to everyone. I had met her parents on a few occasions and they were also very wonderful people; however, I dont want to just call her, and give her the oppurtunity to say no without thinking it through. If she does think it through, I truly believe she will be open to giving it a try, and truthfully thats all im looking for. In some ways, her and I have more in common than me and my ex. Our families are both sephardic, we speak the same languages at home, and on the one occasion (ironically my enagagement party) that my parents and her parents met, they got along very well.
I feel that the fact that we have this history together could come to hurt or help me. On the one hand, she knows me well, knows im a good guy, and knows my background. On the other hand, it wouldnt be most ideal for her to date me considering i was engaged to one of her best friends. My friend who suggested it seems to think that a simple phone call to her would be enough, and that she would be more than willing. I am not so sure though.
How should I go about this? I think it would be a shame for both of us not give it a try.
Thanks.August 18, 2011 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1205900a maminParticipant
Definitely, do not call yourself. Have someone else suggest it for you this way no one will get directly hurt, if the answer is not to your liking. Hatzlocha!August 18, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1205901bein_hasdorimParticipant
You have to understand that asking her to consider dating you would be a major complication (to say the least) to her friendship with your ex.
I think you should ask a warm, sensitive, posek, someone who deeply understands peoples feelings to guide you on the proper steps to take so as not to mess it up, and ease the burden of hurt all around.
In my limited knowledge, i’d have someone “let it slip” to this girl that she was mentioned as a shidduch to you a few times and you were very open to it, but didn’t want to put her in a tough place by making her decide.
However, is she was open to it, then you’d be very happy to give it a go.
Don’t let her know you sent someone, it should just be a scoop that someone close to you let slip.August 18, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1205902
WOW!!! That’s a tricky one!! i agree with a mamin, it should definitely be someone else suggesting the shidduch!! Is your ex-wife still close friends with this girl??? if yes, i don’t think she will want to jump into the shidduch right away! Girls are sensitive when it comes to hurting their best friends!! i wish you lots of hatzlacha!!August 18, 2011 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1205903MDGParticipant
Have someone else call.
Do you think that your parents could call hers?
Please keep in mind your ex-fiance. If you are dating her friend, it may get awkward.August 18, 2011 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1205904kol daveedMember
Please use a shadchan and preferably your Rav. Hatzlacha Rabba!August 18, 2011 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1205905mommamia22Participant
You should not call directly. If the relationship was broken off by mutual consent than you have a better chance with her. If you broke her friends heart, unless your “ex’s” mental health issues are blatant and obvious to everyone, her friend may regard you as the bad guy (prior contact not withstanding).
She may or may not feel comfortable dating you, but it’s certainly worth asking (have someone she respects do it for you).
Years ago, someone sought me for a shidduch, who was previously married to a roommate from seminary. He was religiously what I was looking for, but it so creeped me out and I felt so much like I was betraying her that I declined the shidduch. Go in with an open mind, hopeful, and know that any possible snags may or may not be about you.
Hatzlacha!August 18, 2011 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #1205906mustangriderMember
i have to agree with bein_hasdorim on this one. he had a really good point!
happy face also had a good point. girls tend to be very loyal to their friends. most girls would think at least ten thousand times before considering to date her best friend’s ex. i know that i probably wouldn’t – though your situation sounds a little different – so tred carefully.
good luck!August 18, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1205907aries2756Participant
The first thing that comes to mind is this. At any point during the dating process did anyone, meaning your Kallah or her family, make you aware of her emotional (mental) issues? In other words, were things kept from you that should have been revealed to you?
That is an important question. If the kallah had these issues before she was presented to you, and you were NOT told about it, there is no reason what-so-ever that you should have any guilt pursuing any of her friends if one of them is more suited to you. And I don’t think that her friend would have a problem responding in the affirmative either in such a situation.
On the other hand, if the Kallah developed issues during the engagement that she did not display earlier, or you knew about he issues but thought that you could deal with them, then you should be more careful how you go about it. Maybe you should go back to the original shadchan and have her make the call. Or go to your Rosh Yeshiva and have him call the girl’s parents. He can explain the situation better and he can explain that there is nothing wrong with the two of you dating.August 18, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1205908
Well firstly, regarding the engagement, it was pretty clear to everyone involved that it was her fault, and that she lost something pretty good. Even this particular friend reached out to me at the time and said, im sorry you are going through this, and I know that it was out of your hands. We all know how well you treated her.
I do have a Rabbi that I am very close to, who knows her family well. My hesitancy with using a shadchan or a Rav is that I believe that her natural first reaction will be, I couldnt do such a thing! However, once thinking it through, she may really see the potential there.
Another thing that might be worth noting is that this girl herself went through a broken engagement several years ago.August 18, 2011 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1205909MiddlePathParticipant
As many here have said, girls are extremely caring and sensitive to their friends and their feelings. It would be imperative to first see if both this girl and your ex-fiance are not too weary about such a suggestion (through someone else), and only then to bring yourself into the picture and talk directly. It is so important to take into consideration any feelings that may be hurt along the way, so move forward with extreme care. I hope it works out!August 18, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #1205910
Mustangrider. you know you probably wouldn’t do what? go for the shidduch??
Ir Flabush,i remember a situation where my friend went into a shidduch where the boy didn’t want her, then a few months later a shadchan called with the same boy she went out with. i know it was a great boy, i heard so many amazing things, but the thought of knowing that i would hurt or even lose a friendship so dear, didn’t allow me to go on with the shidduch! i know it’s an entirely different scenario and your even good with this girl, but you have to understand that a friend means alot!!August 18, 2011 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #1205911mommamia22Participant
I agree with bein Hasdorim
Ask a posek and if you’re given the go ahead, than have someone let it slip, as was mentioned.August 18, 2011 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1205912
Ir i think before you go on anymore dates with any girls you need to work on your middos, specifically gaavah you refer to yourself many times as a good guy and say that she lost out on something pretty good, you also made a comment how when u were engaged you thought this girl deserved the best are you the best? just something to think aboutAugust 18, 2011 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1205914mustangriderMember
Happy face – correct!
i meant a true situation where a friend of mine broke up and she still likes him. so in that situation i said no (yes i was redt to my friend’s ex). though i should add that there were other reasons that made me say no.
however, i believe that IrFlatbush’s situation sounds a little differen’t. from what he said i think the girl would probably consider it. but he should take it slow – like i said before – follow bein_hasdorim’s advice.August 18, 2011 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1205915
I understand where you are coming from; however, I believe that yes I do need to consider the difficulty this situation may present to her friendship with my ex.
With that said, I really do not see why I should in any way figure my ex’s feelings into this. She ruined her engagement with me, and I need to watch out for myself. If I believe that this girl may be a good fit, I will pursue regardless of whether or not my EX approves.August 18, 2011 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1205916
Come on Goq!! A person is allowed to have some self respect!!August 18, 2011 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #1205917
Bein Hasdorim..I do like your advice and may put it into practice once my Rav returns from Israel. If he thinks it is worth a go ahead, I will discuss with him what the best approach is given the situation.August 18, 2011 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1205919
Happy face if I’m the only one who got this vibe from his original post then i will gladly retract my statement, there is self respect and then there is excessive pride.August 18, 2011 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1205920
Goq, the only thing he says about himself is that he is “a good guy” he doesn’t say he is the “perfect guy”!August 18, 2011 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1205921NEEDIDEASMember
ASK A RAV….?August 18, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1205922
he said hes a good guy several times it was a bit excessiveAugust 18, 2011 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #1205923yeshivabochur123Participant
I don’t see anything wrong with someone thinking that they are a good guy and yes if a girl breaks off a shidduch because of mental stability issues she is missing out on something good (not sure it would be such a good marriage though if she had these issues). I don’t see anything wrong with what the OP said, why does everyone have to think of themselves as lowly good for nothings?August 18, 2011 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1205924oomisParticipant
I agree with Bein Hasedorim. I also believe you should tread carefully,but try to get a feel for whether or not this girl would be interested (she might not be, even without the issue of her girlfriend, as a factor). If she IS interested, she might want to talk to her friend about it. I hope this works out they way that will bring you simcha and not cause pain to anyone else.
Who knows if your former engagement was specifically designed to ensure that you meet the other girl?August 19, 2011 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1205925MiddlePathParticipant
Ir, in response to your post which responded to my post (I hope that isn’t too confusing), I think you are right. There is no reason for you to consider your ex-fiance’s feelings about this. I only said what I said because that’s what I would have done. If I were in a such a situation, I think I would be concerned about my ex-fiance’s feelings. But that would be wrong. I would have no reason to. This is somewhat related to the thread I started a little while ago. It’s something I have to work on. Good for you!August 19, 2011 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1205926The Best BubbyParticipant
Wishing you much Hatzlacha in all that you do I’YH. Speak to your Rov, and have him call the call the girl’s parents, to explain that you would like to go out with the girl.
My son was offered a shidduch with a wonderful girl, from a great, heimishe family. The girl had been engaged previously to a lovely boy, a few years before, for about 2 months. My son has kevius of learning very early in the am as well as every night. One of the boys in his morning seder is the guy who was engaged to this girl. My son went out with this lovely girl, got engaged and B’H are married now. My daughter in law’s very good friend, whom she went to High School with and Sem got engaged to her ex fiance, and is now married B’H. They both live in the same neighborhood, and are cordial one to the other. What was not right for my daughter in law, was great for her friend. H’KBH has His plans and we have to do our hishtadlus in life to find our true beshert. Everything is Hasgacha Pratis. We have to have complete emunah and bitachon. Some things have to take its course.
May H’KBH grant you much siyata dishmaya to find your true beshert in the right place, in the right time soon and to build a bayit neeman b’yisrael be karov. Amen!August 19, 2011 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1205927lovesbeingjewishMember
haha i also saw that Goq! With boys having pple dying to set them up 24/7 and being told how amazing they are, it affects them eventually. be very humble!! but also value urselfAugust 19, 2011 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1205928
ty for the conformation lbj it seemed obvious to me glad im not the only oneAugust 19, 2011 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1205929aries2756Participant
IR, only you know what the emotional issues are that effected your ex Kallah. You didn’t answer my inquiry if the Kallah had these issues before the engagement or if it is something that developed during the engagement. If these two girls are very close and the girl in question still supports the ex-kallah she will not do anything in the world to hurt her. In addition, there is a huge inyan of not hurting anyone when it comes to fertility and having children. Depending on how you broke it off with your ex-kallah and her family, would it be possible to approach them and say that obviously it was not meant to be, but Hashem does have a plan for all of us, and maybe his plan was not for the two of you, but for you to meet the friend and see her qualities. Let them know that you are not looking to hurt your former Kallah, but you would like her permission to date her friend because you do not want friction between the friends and do not want to break up a friendship. If it would cause her pain, then you should forget about it and move on.
Just her knowing that it might work out for her friend and you, she might love her friend enough to allow the two of you to try. She might not say yes right away, but giving her the opportunity to think about it, she might come around within weeks or a couple of months.
I am saying this because if you cause her additional pain knowing her emotional situation it can effect you and your future wife later on when you are trying to have children. That is a huge inyan. So maybe this is something you really should discuss with your Rav and review your whole situation in regards to the break up, how you handled it. How your ex feels about you right now. How she would feel if you dated her friend, etc. If she has no hard feelings towards you, maybe it is she that you should approach first.August 19, 2011 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1205931
Ok. I apologize. I am not worth very much, and anyone who marries me will not be lucky to have me. My ex fiancee was right, she is much better than I am. Why would I even think her friend would go for me?
Goq, you happy? Are my middot now in line with your standards?
With all the shtooyot in the world,and all the games people play regarding marriage, and all the money chasing, I cant believe that a little self worth becomes Gaava! If i had said that I am Hashems gift to the world, and im rich and good looking and drive a nice car, i can understand. But in the end, all i said was that I am a good person, Shame on me!August 19, 2011 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #1205932lovesbeingjewishMember
ManofReason I’m not seeing so much reason here. It seems he said he’s first STARTING to date after 4 months. And he may think he’s a prince, but he doesn’t imply at all that he stil wants to be with his ex bec she sounds crazy. Having a broken engagenment, thinking you’re a prince, and wanting to date her best friend doesn’t constitue mental instability.August 19, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1205933
Aries, thank you for your wise point.
The problems were pretty well known throughout her particular community (one that I am in outsider too), and the problems are more a result of her homelife growing up. All I will say is that a lot of information was kept from during the dating process. A lesson for me was that I should have done more digging at the time, but i trusted my fiancee, and thought I knew why type of person she was, and did not want to hold her accountable for her parents mistakes. That is why, after we broke it off, many in her community (including her Rabbi and closest friends) reached out to me knowing that there were indeed issues, and that they knew that I had done nothing to bring this about.
I know that my ex still respects me greatly, and at the time I tried to handle the situation with as much maturity as possible. We have not been in contact, but I do feel that, as you say, she would ultimately accept the idea of her friend and I dating.
With all this said, perhaps you are correct and I should take her emotional thoughts into account a little more, as that can someday come back and do damage.August 19, 2011 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #1205934
Man of Reason,
I can see why one can look at this this particular situation and believe that; however, I dont believe this to be the case. Truthfully, I just want to meet somoene with a good heart and good middot, and I believe that this girl does indeed posess that. Not to mention the common customs and background, which I have learned can make things much easier when getting married.August 19, 2011 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #1205935TomcheMember
He definitely does not need permission from his ex-kallah.August 19, 2011 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1205937therealmgamaMember
I think the answer is simple, like many posters have already said. Ask a shadchan or someone uninvolved to “redd” it to her!
Now, I’d like to post my own dilemma: I was about to get engaged to a boy with mild mental issues, but then he told us about his problem, and we were told by our Rav to stay away. Since you, IrFlatbush, have gone through a similar situation, can you give me some chizuk that we made the right decision? What is it like to be in a relationship with one who has mental issues?August 19, 2011 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #1205938bein_hasdorimParticipant
IrFlatbush; Thanks, It’s a sensitive situation and has to be entered w/ sensitivity. I suggest you Daven to HB”H it should go smoothly.
I wish you much Hatzlacha!August 20, 2011 11:52 am at 11:52 am #1205939Moshiach please comeMember
That must be really hard for you. I truly sympathize with you on this. Although you’ve mentioned alot of detail I don’t know the full story well enough to advise but I really wish you pure hatzlocha and Brocha in finding your true zivug in life. May you merit to build a bayis Ne’eman beyisroel very soon. I feel your pain it’s definitely not easy. May we only hear of simcha bekorov. Daven hard!!! Break through those gates and you’ll find her. TRUST in the one above!!! He has got his Devine plans for each and every one of his creations. Hope all goes well.August 22, 2011 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #1205940ManofReasonMember
Flatbush, I was reading what you said carefully , and there is almost a reccuring theme ” you need to look out for yourself, it was her fault, she ruined the engagement” It sounds like she called it off, and thats extremely upsetting. Having been in the same situation years ago,There are a few points I need to make. You were supposed to meet her, but HKBH did not want you to marry her. Think of the good things that came out of the relationship and be happy that it happened.Even if it was her fault, Forgive her. If you really want to go out with her friend for the right reasons then you will. Do not do anything out of spite, becuase then you are still hurting yourself. Be happy you met her, forgive her, and move on, and you will meet your bashert very soon.August 22, 2011 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1205941
I dont think you should approach her friend on your own and I think davening is the main thing here- along with a really really good rav!August 22, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1205942
Dear Ir i didn’t say you had to feel worthless but the excess of self praise in your posts was to me obvious, i don’t feel worthless and neither should you but i do think you need to keep your ego in check. I apologize for calling you out in public, wishing you well in all your endeavors.August 25, 2011 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1205943
IR- what happened with you?August 29, 2011 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #1205944
Hey guys, sorry I have been traveling for work, and havent had so much time to logon. Firstly, regarding the good wishes from everyone. I appreciate them greatly, your kind words really mean a lot.
Adorable, to update you, my RAV recently returned from Israel, and I will be meeting him this week to catch up. I will mention this idea and see what he thinks. Ironically, last week a good friend of mine suggested her to me, and went on and on about how good of a girl this is, and felt that she wouldnt be opposed to us taking a stab at it. I will update you guys on how it goes.August 29, 2011 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1205945
therealmgama, I am sorry I havent gotten back to you. I would have rather messaged you privately, but I guess you cant do this on the site. I know its tough, and I really sympathize with the feelings you are going through. However, please rest assured that based one my expereince, I believe you are better off.
While there are a whole range of mental issues, I feel that my fathers advice to me at the time applies. He told me that marriage is going to be a roller coaster unlike any you have ever experienced, and the fact is that one of the most important things you and your wife need to have is stability. When you guys run into problems you need to have the strength to overcome them, but if the person you are married to cannot handle these problems, your life together will be very very hard.
Im sure your situation was tough, but the fact is that people you trust saw that this is the decision you must make. BH, like myself, one day you will look back and see clearly see that this was meant to happen, and something much better will come for you.August 31, 2011 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1205946therealmgamaMember
Thank you, this was a great dose of chizuk. I appreciate it! Wishing you much hatzlacha…September 27, 2011 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1205947
is this the girl that you are dating? so happy to hear that things are working out for you. there are still a couple of people here that wish they would have it as easy as you are now. may we hear besuros tovos soon.December 27, 2016 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1205948kadosh123Member
I am just curious, what ended up happening with you and the girl? Did it end up working out?December 27, 2016 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1205949Pro JewsMember
Oyoyoyoy here we have a problem.
The problem of curiosity.
What are you first- a yid or a scientist?
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