Netura Karta Protesting at College Campuses

chaim87: i dont think the NK at the protests are really part of the NK community. They seems to me to be satmar rejects. that said, it could be that genuine NK in Meah Shearim really do care about tznius but the stooges at the rally only care about the $300 a day that they are getting paid.

The Neturey Karta resoyim WERE at the Pro Israel DC rally. They were the only group of Palestinian nationalists that were there.

You don’t ask questions on the NK assuming there is any type of Torah based chesbon for what they are doing. Whatever they were 30 or 50 or 70 years ago (there is a difference between what they believed and preached in all those time periods), at this point in time, they no longer even bother claiming to be a Torah haskafa based group . They are Palestinian nationalists. Their website is pure militant Palestinian nationalism, their rhetoric is straight party line Palestinian nationalism, their references to Torah are only made in an effort to encourage Palestinian nationalism etc.

The Satmar Rebbe (Rav Yoel) was well known to have opposed making any joint efforts with non-Jewish anti-Zionist groups. As one close Talmid of his told me he was there when someone broached the ideas and The Satmar Rebbe emphatically answered “Chalila to do such a things!!!” I used to think that it was only because of what rotzchem most non-Jewish anti-Zionist groups are. I now realize another reason why it is such a terrible idea: Torah haskafa needs to be exclusively Torah based. Once you start making common cause with non-Jewish groups to advance an haskafic issue it is only a matter of time until that group will start having a heavy influence on you and your haskafa. Particularly when they are giving you money and honor like the NK receives. That is how and why the NK ended up what it is today

It depends how important or pressing you view the situation to be.
I’m from a large Frum community. Not only did the very Chushiv Ruv who is President of the Vaad HaRabbanim encourage the broader community to go to the DC rally, he encouraged his (Yeshivish) Shul members to go & (actions speak louder than words) he went as well.

The rally had separate-gender sections. The much bigger issues with the rally were the hischabrus im reshaim and the chilul Hashem of allowing the Zionists to be their representatives/leader (just like by the Eigel).

The difference between the Zionists who attended that Zionist rally, vs. NK bringing to the gentiles the Torah’s indisputable message that Zionism is not Judaism, is that NK likely believes (and it seems more so than ever that they are right in that belief) that it is literal pikuach nefesh to make sure the gentiles know that Zionism is not Judaism and therefore that the gentiles should not blame the Jews for whatever issue these gentiles might have with the Zionists and their State.

@Chaim87

I’m not sure what you’re stuck on. Just because someone dresses a certain way and calls themselves Frum- doesn’t mean that they’re Frum.

If you see a guy with a hat and jacket driving to shul on Shabbos- would you call him Frum? Would you eat in his house.

If you see a supposedly Shomer Shabbos guy in McDonalds eating a Happy Meal- would you call him Frum?

If you found out that a kollel yungerman is “married” to a male- would you let him learn with your kids?

If you found out that a supposedly Frum neighbor (with long payos and everything) identifies as a female and hangs out in girls locker rooms – would you let your kids into his house to play with his kids?

If you found out that someone in your shul votes Democrat- would you still let him have kibbudim?

So, just because someone dresses a certain way, acts a certain way and claims to be Frum- it doesn’t make them a שומר תורה ומצות.

I’m not sure why you’re surprised by the way they act.

> bringing to the gentiles the Torah’s indisputable message that Zionism is not Judaism

This sounds like a fourth oath, not included in the first three, like the 5th department in the tefilin.

Dr Pepper,

The first two examples you might be מחויב to be דן לכף זכות

The last one can be classified as a תינוק שנישבו

The key to stopping anti-semitism is for yidden to stop doing aveiros. Second perhaps to smartphones, the greatest spiritual calamity to masses of yidden today is zionist ideology which has impeded itself into much of the otherwise frum communities worldwide.

If a Jew thinks that the IDF or the State of Israel has any redeeming qualities (at least any more than the Crusaders or Pharaoh), they are inadvertently causing this war to continue along with the continued terrorist attacks of the past 100 years, Hashem yerachem.

Hippy,

What are you smoking? You’re probably also grateful to the Kapos who assisted the Nazis in murdering millions of Jews during the Holocaust for “literally, single handedly, protecting all jews globally”. It’s also quite telling that you “know many anti semites”; I’ll bet they’re some of your best friends.

@ ☕️coffee addict

Of course you need to be דן לכף זכות in the first two cases, I was referring to a situation where, let’s say, you informed the person that he shouldn’t be driving on Shabbos and he answered that he knows it’s Shabbos but he only keeps Shabbos in it house. Would you eat in his house?

Similarly, if you explained to someone who’s supposedly שומר שבת that he shouldn’t be eating in McDonalds and he answers that he’s only chewing but not swallowing- would you still call him Frum?

Finally, in the last case I’m referring to someone who knows what the party represents and that they are diametrically opposed to השם and the תורה but justifies voting Democrat because he’s socially liberal but fiscally conservative- do you think such a person should be called to the תורה in a Frum Shul?

Given the world as it is, I don’t think too many yidden, regardless of their hashkafah, would really be upset if these slimeballs were somehow “neutralized” (in politically correct wokespeak).

If not for NK, all jews would get blamed for everything Israel does that the world disapproves of.

>>>If not for NK, all jews would get blamed for everything Israel does that the world disapproves of.

Why? There are plenty of vitriolically anti-religious secular Jewish groups who have identical views and act identically to the NK when it comes to Israel. They loooooooove saying “As a Jew followed by some NK view about Israel” Why not give them the credit?

Say there was an American Arab group who was as anti-Hamas as the NK is anti whatever Israel does. Not only that , they also ran around protesting everywhere screaming loudly the propaganda and rhetoric of the far , far , far right in Israel. Many Zionists would love them like antisemites love the NK. But by being so inflammatory and adapting the rhetoric of the far , far , far right not only would they cost Arab lives they probably cost Jewish lives as well.

We have no such groups causing such results . The Arabs have the resoyim from NK. Lo B’Chinom holacha hazarzir etzel horev

Whether a single monolithic group or 16 splinter groups, the world would be a better place if all of those who lend support Hamas would immediately move on to their well-deserved place in gehenom where a “warm” welcome awaits them.

Neturei Karta are paid for their work. Unfortunately they are not the only ones who sell out yidden for gelt or attention.

Joseph,

There you go again, defending your NK heroes. They are a “much more very dangerous evil” than all the other groups you listed since by their appearence they can be confused with Orthodox Jews, which they most certainly aren’t. Of course everyone here realizes that in your made-up religion, appearances matter more than anything, which is why you love these evil NK monsters so much.

Chaim87: Have you ever gone around the internet posting comments demanding all Yidden working in goyishe workplaces immediately quit, since they are around shiktzas dressed immodestly?

You should also be demanding that Yidden never attend professional sports games as it isn’t permitted to be meschaber and join goyim who don’t observe to Torah, as you put it.

Dofi, conservative and open ‘orthodox’ can and are very often conflated with authentic Jews. Their apikorsus is poisonous to klal yisroel and the damage inflicted by their words leads to communal sinning and akiras hatorah.

NK isn’t taken seriously by anyone, and even if they were, the content of their speech isn’t apikorsus, nor are they advocating the abrogation of mitzvos. They are parroting political talking points from the anti semites, and they are, at the most, tokenized jews who serve as cover for antisemites to hide their jew hatred.

For a crowd whose yom kippur drashos are all about the “state of world jewry” and think that the main thing that we should be concerned with or outraged by are israeli politics and/or our physical safety, yes, NK presents more of a threat. But to Torah jews who are more concerned with teshuva and kiyum hamitzvks, we just laugh at NK and daven that their actions don’t lead to jews being endangered. But we understand that some jews might actually bs drawn to yiddishkeit by their message, because some have imbibed the colleges’ radical anti Israel teachings and are open to a Judaism that does not include Israel – that can be either yeshivish, chasidishe, or NK,

…or “liberation ” jewish groups like Jewish Voices for Peace which are secular and self hating Jews.

unfortunately their campus rabbis are typically modern orthodox or chabad, which make Israel advocacy and hasbara a huge part of their kiruv.

I’m talking about the less than 10% of college jews who are not pro israel; they are a considerable population. And if NK makes even one of them interested in authentic yiddishkeit, then that’s a positive.

Ujm’s and all of us Torah jews on here are saying that NK hasn’t fundamentally drifted away from Torah values in their ideology, but moreso in their nutty practices. Think of them as a mentally unstable frum person compared with an apikores.

>>>unfortunately their campus rabbis are typically modern orthodox or chabad, which make Israel advocacy and hasbara a huge part of their kiruv.

I know two campus rabbis both of whom say (1)they avoid all political conversation (most kiruv organizations try to) and (2)other than harassments they have never seen any interest from students who are involved in anti-Israel activity.

>>>I’m talking about the less than 10% of college jews who are not pro israel; they are a considerable population. And if NK makes even one of them interested in authentic yiddishkeit, then that’s a positive.

The NK has zero interest in Kiruv. Even they don’t claim anyone became interested in Torah because of their promotion of Palestinian Nationalism and claiming that is Judaism. On the flip side they have been engaging in a campaign of shmad even since the state of Israel came into existence. Their behavior makes Torah true Jews seem so detestable who can know how many people they have turned off from it R’L? Simple proof. Take me personally. Some of the zealots here consider me to be a Zionist. (I don’t consider myself to be one) ) How did I become one when I grew up in a very anti-Zionist background? The answer is that having lived in Meah Shearim for three years and seeing the behavior of extreme anti-Zionists.

Or to quote Rav Shlomo Pappenheim (spokesman for the Edah Hachereidis) “Violence on our part causes hatred of chareidim which turns into hatred of our religion and eventually leads to hatred kiveyachol of the One Above. … I can say unequivocally that a chiloni who gets hit by a stone on Shabbos is never going to do teshuvah.”

Dofi, if crazy people tell others to play in traffic, they’re just nuts; they’re not apikorsim.

Smerel, NK might not do kiruv (i have no idea if they do or not) , but their presence and their dress might serve as examples for these kids that you could be super religious and fit their twisted political agendas that they were indoctrinated with in school, which could be a stepping stone to yiddishkeit. Far better than the “we’re Jewish and pro Palestinian” crowd who are very anti Torah.

Horrible dressing (which frequently characterizes sartorial selections within our own tzibur) and marginal pritzusdike images and manequins don’t come close in the current political environment to the dangers and risks imposed by NK’s anti-Israel demonstrations.

When you publicly attack “The Zionists”,
you help people who work and fight to commit GENOCIDE
against ALL JEWS, starting with the Jews in Eretz HaKodesh.

This makes you a super-rodaif and a super-mosair.

Stated a different way:

When you publicly attack “The Zionists”, you become a [De Facto]
*** ALLY *** of all those who fight to commit GENOCIDE
against ALL JEWS, starting with the Jews in Eretz HaKodesh.

When you publicly attack “The Zionists”, you become
an *** ALLY *** of Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran.

This makes you a super-rodaif and a super-mosair.

PS: I hope this is simpler and easier to understand.

Avira > their presence and their dress might serve as examples for these kids that you could be super religious and fit their twisted political agendas that they were indoctrinated with in school, which could be a stepping stone to yiddishkeit.

More likely 90% of sane kids on campus will get turned off with such “yiddishkeit”, then they’ll search online and see that some “frum” people keep similar views in CR and H’V will never look again, unless some Chabadnik meets them.

>>>Smerel, NK might not do kiruv (i have no idea if they do or not) , but their presence and their dress might serve as examples for these kids that you could be super religious and fit their twisted political agenda

If anything the NK presence on college campuses and elsewhere is a replica in the US of their shmad campaign in Eretz Yisroel. Take a guy name Adam. He is a sincere Jewish student with a strong Jewish identity and some sort of interest in following Judaism. IOW the target group for campus kiruv. He like most people in his demographic is deeply disturbed over Jews being killed in Eretz Yisroel and Arab terrorists. He sees Jews with long beards and peyos ,who to him look like the epitome of Orthodox Jews, coming out in support of those murderers and their goals. Is he now going to be more likely or less likely to be interested in Torah True Judaism?

Now take Adriana. She is a completely secular Jew whose only reference to her Judaism is when she says “As a Jew I condemn Israel for…” Her only connection to Jewish groups are anti-Israel groups. Her perception of Judaism is some sort of Tikkun Olam which means whatever is written on the op-ed pages of the liberal publications. Which of course requires her to be anti-Israel and pro-Palestine . As above I was told by two people involved in campus kiruv that such people don’t go near them other than for possible harassment purposes. Adriana sees Jews with long beards and peyos ,who to her look like the epitome of Orthodox Jews, coming out in support of Palestinian Nationalism and saying exactly like her that “Judaism” requires them to support Palestinian Nationalism. They make no other reference to Judaism. Will that interest her in Torah True Judaism or will she say that since even those Jews equate Palestinian Nationalism with Judaism that must be what Judaism really is ?