August 23, 2011 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #598851call me frumMember
Will someone please explain to me why most people living in NY are comfortable the way they are and have no plan whatsoever to move to Israel?? As much torah as there is in NY it’s a mitzvah from the Torah to live in Eretz Yisroel!!August 23, 2011 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #801369mommamia22Participant
I don’t know where you heard that new Yorkers aren’t making Aliya, but it isn’t true. I know tons of new Yorkers who are now living in eretz YISRAEL, so it may just be the crowd you know, or from an inaccurate observation.August 23, 2011 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #801370WIYMember
It is debatable if this mitzvah applies today. Additionally I heard that one can be mekayem that mitzvah by visiting or by supporting anniyei Eretz Israel. Don’t ask me for sources maybe someone here knows of some.August 23, 2011 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #801371
usually bec they are comfratble with their jobs and kids and don’t want to pick up leave. i don’t agree with it, but it’s the sad truth. look at what happened in europeAugust 23, 2011 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #801372
It seems like the mitzvah only applies when we’re not in galus (just a guess) additionally there’s a mitzvah of v’chai bahem, (and we say v’lo sheyamos bahem) if you can’t survive economically wise than not a mitzvahAugust 23, 2011 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #801373happy faceMember
What makes you think moving to Eretz Yisroel is just about “planning”?? It’s alot more than that!! Living in Eretz Yisroel is not easy! As a newly married couple, it’s a huge expense to live there! From the apartment to the lifestyle. Even once you have a family, the children have to adjust to new surroundings. For all those people that do move to Eretz Yisroel, Kol Hakevod, i really respect them! Eretz Yisroel is a beautiful place to live! I wish i would have the strength to get up and go live there!August 23, 2011 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #801374Abe CohenParticipant
Why didn’t Rav Moshe, the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Ahron Kotler, Rav Pam, the Rambam, Rav SRH, the Vilna Gaon move to Israel?
Besides, it is generally the OOTers, with their large house, lawn, and gardens that would be loath that Moshiach come too fast, lest they have to give all that up.August 23, 2011 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #801375
First of all call me frum why don’t you move to Israel if its such a big mitzva. Probably you are not moving there for the very good reasons everyone else is not. As far as the charaide system goes its very black and white and most Americans fit in the gray area and kids get royally messed up and when they don’t fit in the system there. Also how exactly is one to support a family there if they dont speak the language and never served in the army.August 23, 2011 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #801376600 Kilo BearMember
Can you pls close this thread. It will just be a rehash of the last one which got us nowhere.August 23, 2011 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #801377midwesternerParticipant
With all due respect, Mr. Cohen, you have no clue about the attitudes of Out of Towners. Its those from Boro Park, Williamsburg, Monsey and the like that call their Chutz La’aretz home towns “Ir Hakodesh”, not us!!August 23, 2011 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #801379
ok abe and midwesterner it’s still Av (almost Elul) can you two please act maturely and stop this name calling?August 23, 2011 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #801380mamashtakahMember
Also how exactly is one to support a family there if they dont speak the language and never served in the army.
I manage, B”H, as do many, many many other people I know.
Next excuse.August 23, 2011 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #801381
One doesn’t need any excuses.August 23, 2011 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #801382aries2756Participant
People have their reasons for moving and people have their reasons for staying. Most reasons are usually connected to family. How does one pick up and leave elderly parents behind, who will care for them? How do you pick up and just leave your married kids and grandchildren? Or one spouse wants to and the other spouse doesn’t so it is a Shalom Bayis issue and the couple just isn’t on the same page.
Then there is the fear factor. You can’t control another person’s fear or anxiety no matter how much you try to reason or rationalize. Your bitachon says that Hashem will watch out for you and it is more dangerous riding a subway in NY than walking the streets of E”Y. That does not help someone else’s fear and anxiety. You have no idea how many New Yorkers have never even had the experience of visiting Israel for this very same reason.
Many, many people’s hearts are in Yerushalayim while their feet are firmly planted in NY. That is just how it is, and no one can judge them for it.August 23, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #801383netazarParticipant
Hacham: sure you need an excuse. It’s a mitzva.
Thanks to midwesterner for answering abe so well. I hear OOTers are more likely to make aliya, not less.August 23, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #801384
Yes they do Hacham bec it’s a mitzvah DA’RAYSA.August 23, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #801385
I’ve seen too many families my own cousins included who made the move and the kids did not fit in the system and would have been a lot better off staying in America. I’ve also seen too many Israelis coming to America to collect for kids weddidng. Yes I know there are ppl that can’t make ends meet in Americal but its a lot harder in Israel.August 23, 2011 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #801386
What are the Gedolim of the past 2000 years and the Gedolim of today’s “excuse”?August 23, 2011 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #801387
BTW, the majority of Americans living in Israel are New Yorkers. So I would have to say Abe is correct in that NYers are quicker to move to EY, while OOTers are too comfortable where they are.August 23, 2011 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #801388
Collegegrad- It’s harder in Israel but if it were so easy where would the schar be? The more toil you put in a mitzvah, the more schar you get! And there off the derech kdis EVERYWHERE. Out-of-town, New York, even the UK. So NEXTAugust 23, 2011 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #801389
Their “excuse” is to spread torah to people who are obviously not moving to Israel anytime soon. I’m sure they would rather live in E”Y but they need to lead their fellow YiddnAugust 23, 2011 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #801390
ootinny – you have to know your kids and if they are at a good time to move. Yes there are kids off everywhere but if you move with kids over ten to Israel the odds your kids going off will be much greater than if you stay in America. Also there is something called hishtadlus. You can’t just do rash things and say o Hashem will help out. If you have a good job in America and have no means of supporting yourself in Israel stay in America and be self supportive instead of living off others in Israel.August 23, 2011 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #801391mamashtakahMember
BTW, the majority of Americans living in Israel are New Yorkers.
Based on what? Cite?August 23, 2011 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #801392
Anecdotal. Do you disagree? Certainly proportionally much higher.August 23, 2011 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #801393midwesternerParticipant
What percentage of frum people in this country come from NY/NJ? And what percentage of American Israelis come from NY/NJ?August 24, 2011 12:11 am at 12:11 am #801394emunah613Member
As with all important steps in life, it is very wise to consult a gadol. A gadol I know has told certain families to go to Eretz Yisroel and others to stay put.
Eretz Yisroel is not just another real estate location, as you know. One who lives there is in the palace of the King of Kings. There are those that are going to grow spiritually there and flourish, but others will find insurmountable issues, and may have to return to Chutz La’aretz.
One thing is certain, Hashem guides us and lets us know where we can best serve Him. If the idea of aliyah is coming up over and over, then that may be a sign to begin the process. For some Jews, that idea NEVER crosses their mind as a viable option. It is not fair to judge anyone’s choice, or to say lashon hora about Eretz Yisroel. If Hashem wants you in His most beloved place, mentioned ???? times in Tanach, He will help you arrive and stay put. A few unique to EY yissurim will probably be thrown in to give your neshama a challenge, but it will only be given to because you are meant to accelerate to a faster level of soul refinement in the palace of the King. People in CHUTZ Laaretz have plenty of yissurim, too. Just take a look at all the news-there is no trouble-less carefree place left!
And btw, you might be surprised to know that quite a few American charities solicit in EY on behalf of Jews needing help in the USA.August 24, 2011 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #801395ToiParticipant
i hear all the taanos of those who haven’t moved to EY. it is still obvious that NYers are way more complacent and content in NY then most other jewish communities in NA.August 24, 2011 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #801396Abe CohenParticipant
Au contraire. There are more NYers than OOTers in Israel, proportionally. Perhaps because the NYers aren’t as comfortable in golus in their small homes as the OOTers are in their large gashmiusdik homes that they’d loath to give up for a small one in EY.August 24, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #801397
mods please close this thread, it’s basically a fight between OOTers and NYers on who’s more comfortable in galusAugust 24, 2011 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #801398ToiParticipant
o please all you hear from in towners is how many restaurants and bungalow and lexuses they have. gimme a break. and maybe there are more NY in EY because ratio-wise there are more. duh
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