Nittel Nact

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  • This topic has 31 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 11 months ago by ujm.
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  • #1931779
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Today is Nittle Nacht, do you observe it? do you observe the Russisher Nittle nacht?

    #1931887
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We observe Jan 6 as the calendar was modified by Pope Gregory in 1582.

    #1931885
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    How could a day be nacht?

    #1931918
    ujm
    Participant

    We’re machmir and observe both dates.

    #1931925
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There is a joke, how come that this night the goyim celebrate the night before and Purim we make the sudah towards the night after? They celebrate after a Jew and we celebrate after a goy.

    #1931922
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Nittel starts at noon or 4 pm and goes till midnight

    #1931940
    ujm
    Participant

    What if nittel falls on a Shabbos?

    #1931984

    This year, I am fasting on nittel day, even erev shabbos.

    #1931980
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Pope Gregory eliminated ten days and years divided by a hundred became only leap years if they can also be divided by four hundred. Now at 1582, 1600 and 2000 did not change but it changed 1700, 1800 and 1900 making a thirteen day difference, so December 25 inclusive becomes January 6.

    #1931981
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Shabbos is exempt as the kedusha overtakes the tumah. Some say, people used to learn in shul and it was a danger to go out and learn on this night.

    #1932001
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: After 2100 it will change to January 5.

    #1932002
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    we use to play chess and kvittlach in yeshiva on nittel

    #1932009

    RE, a good point.
    If the reason is danger, then having books and computers at home should exempt one from observing N.N. Or is it minhag avoteinu that overrides a Torah mitzva?

    If the reason is mystical, why don’t we follow Jewish calendar instead of following Julius Ceasar, Pope Gregory,

    Which groups do NN and which do not and when? Maybe we can reconstruct tradition from geo/social distribution?

    #1932010
    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Really? I never heard that…
    It will be relevant next year, as nittel will indeed be on Shabbos.

    #1932100
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ujm, would it not be January 7, 14 days difference? For a goyishe celebration why use the jewish calendar?

    #1932132
    Pekak
    Participant

    It’s not about the Goyishe celebration. It’s about Tekufas Teves. Once upon a time it happened to fall on December 25th which is still celebrated by most Xtians to this day even after the calendar was corrected.

    #1932134
    charliehall
    Participant

    “For a goyishe celebration why use the jewish calendar?”

    We use a goyish calendar — and an inaccurate one at that — to determine when to start saying “tein tal umatar”.

    #1932170
    Pekak
    Participant

    @charliehall

    We’re not using the Goyishe calendar. In chutz la’aretz v’sein tal umatar is said beginning 60 days after Tekufas Tishrei. The Tekufos follow the solar calendar.

    #1932180

    Charlie, Pekak, thanks for the answers!
    more questions:
    – do we do 2 days of nitl nacht in golus?

    – how to do nitl nacht for those who do not have mitzva of Torah learning (women, children, mutes), or do not (apikoiri and ignorami)

    #1932188
    ujm
    Participant

    It depends if nittel is a nidcha.

    #1932271
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ” making a thirteen day difference, so December 25 inclusive becomes January 6″

    The Orthodox church celebrates January 7th the 13 days are added Dec 25 + 13 = Jan 7

    ” After 2100 it will change to January 5.”

    It will change to January 8. 2100 Will not be a leap year on the Gregorian Calendar it will be on the Julian Calendar. so that Gregorian year will be 365 days long that Julian year wil be 366 days long. This will make the difference between the 2 observances 1 day greater, not less.
    Lehavdil ad lanetzach, The difference between the Gregorian date and 60 days after the Tekufas tishrei as calculated by Shmuel (which h corresponds tho the Julian Calendar) will also grow by 1 day causing vesen tal umatar to be recited on Dec 5/6 instead of the current 4/5
    (there are some groups Amish, Mennonite that celebrate Jan 6, but as these groups were not existent “in di heim” nobody that I am aware of keeps nittel based on their date)

    “It’s not about the Goyishe celebration. It’s about Tekufas Teves.”

    I have never heard any source tying the Tekufa to Nittel. Some observe nittel Dec 25, Others Jan 7. Tekufas Teves according to Shmuel is Jan 6 , based on Rav Adda it is Dec 26

    charlie

    #1932313
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    By us they keep it the night towards Jan 6 little kratzmich.

    #1932318
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: In America the goyim keep it on December 25, not January 6.

    #1932321
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Look up the Jewish Journal. People from Adas Yereim follow their customs and don’t care for America, the am reik even among goyim. There is something called epiphany.

    #1932348
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: Ada’s Yereim is Vien. Vienna, Austria is Catholic. They also use December 25.

    What is the Jewish Journal?

    #1932384
    johnklets
    Participant

    after 2100 it will be january 07, but there would not be nittel anymore because moshiach will most probably already be here

    #1932431
    ujm
    Participant

    johnklets, the seforim hakedoshim say that after Moshiach comes Klal Yisroel will stop celebrating yomim tovim d’oraysa, like Pesach. But the occasions instituted by the rabbonim will continue even after Moshiach. As such, l’choira nittel nacht will continue to be observed.

    #1932455
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ujm, google ‘when is nittel’ and you will see the Jewish Journal, A Brief History of Nittel Nacht, indicating Jan 6 which would make it inclusive. Nittel is not instituted by rabbonim but a custom. Some say that it was dangerous to go to shul to learn. The sefardim don’t keep it as their goyim are mainly muslems.

    #1934141
    efshar azoi
    Participant

    Chafetz chaim says he will take any aveiros on his chesbon, we shouldnt not learn Torah..

    #1934271
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Reb Eleizer, Back in the early 1970s Bucherim from the Klausenberg Yeshiva asked the Klausenberger Rebbe ven iz nittle, he answered mer kenster fragin ah harber tosvos, ven is nittle frag der galech

    #1934844
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    So nittel should be Tuesday night, the night to the 6th of January.

    #1934879
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, are you trying to hint that we’re doing nittel on January 6 due to the churban we’re expecting that day in Congress??

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