June 3, 2020 8:57 am at 8:57 am #1867266HaimyParticipant
George Floyd was negligently killed by a Minneapolis police officer. That’s all we know. We don’t know that the murder was racially motivated, the kneeing may have been the easiest way (though negligent & wrong) for the cop to keep this convicted violent criminal under control. African Americans are ransacking cities around the US under the guise of social justice. As of now, we have no evidence that the cop was a racist, he is a bad cop among a majority of fine officers. African American men have a much higher rate of incarceration for violent crimes much of it occurring against other African Americans. This means that law enforcement interaction is disproportionately high with this community which raises the chances of something going wrong. I’m in no way excusing the behavior of Derek Chauven who is a bad character. I do not believe cops are any more racist than the general populationJune 3, 2020 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1867344n0mesorahParticipant
You brought up seven(!) points of racial disparity or injustice. And you seem to find nothing worth changing. You are the reason for those that are destroying out of frustration.June 3, 2020 9:20 am at 9:20 am #1867358concerrned momParticipant
Right.the African americans themselves make an issue out of their color by assuming it was all about race. Why dont they jyst call it police brutality? And why are they protesting against all cops? When someone suffers at the hands of an african american do they all want to take the blame? I think the jews owe the world (blks in particular)some riots for the Jersey city shooting and the chanuka machete attack! The worst part is when gov.and mayor understand their pain and feel we must let them protest…June 3, 2020 9:35 am at 9:35 am #1867360lowerourtuition11210Participant
HAimy: What is your proof that Mr. Floyd was a”convicted violent criminal” ?June 3, 2020 9:35 am at 9:35 am #1867364akupermaParticipant
So what? Police are not supposed to murder, or even manslaughter (negligent homicide). They are not supposed to beat people up just because they feel like it. We would complain (and do complain) when police beat up a Yid, even if anti-semitism wasn’t a factor, and even if he “deserved it”. The major difference is we have enough control of the situation to prevent kids from going on a crime spree. And in all fairness, the idiot politicians (elected, so blame the electors) who feel that by encouraging looting and violence they will win votes will probably pay a price for it (remember David Dinkins’ distinguished three terms as mayor).June 3, 2020 10:19 am at 10:19 am #1867368
Concerned mom seems to be the only one who actually read the thread titleJune 3, 2020 10:20 am at 10:20 am #1867370
While happened to Floyed might or not have been a racist act, the mere fact that we know about this shows that there is no white supremacy problem in the USA.
In fact, if this were a white person, no one would have known about this!June 3, 2020 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1867431yehudayonaParticipant
Floyd and Chauvin had both been employed as security/bouncers at a Latin nightclub. The former owner of the nightclub has said that she doesn’t know if they knew each other, since their employ overlapped only briefly. She also said that on nights when the crowd was mostly black, “He would mace everyone instead of apprehending the people who were fighting,” said Maya Santamaria, former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo club in Minneapolis. “He would call backup. The next thing you would know, there would five or six squad cars.”
She said Chauvin got along well with the club’s Latino regulars, but his tactics toward unruly customers on what she referred to as “African American” nights led her to speak to him about it.
“I told him I thought this is unnecessary to be pepper-sprayed. The knee-jerk reaction of being afraid, it seemed overkill,” Santamaria said. “It was a concern and I did voice my opinion, but police officers have a way of justifying what they do.”June 3, 2020 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #1867461
This is both about race and not about race.
The underlying problem is police brutality. The OP poo-poos its extent but it is something that happens much too often and quite frankly – we have all had enough of it. A few in the Jewish community have not been paying to this problem the same way they did not pay attention to prison/justice reform problem until it bit a few of us in the rear but the fact is, police brutality is a huge problem in America. How long are Americans going to turn a blind eye to police brutality as it gets worse and worse every year? We have become numb to the news but if you paid attention there was a story of police brutality every day. Yes, police brutality is color blind and (a small minority but still) too many cops are brutal towards everyone, equally and so we should all be protesting against it.
But this is also about race. Even though there is no reason to believe that this violent police officer was motivated by racial hatred (or that police brutality, in general is motivated by racial hatred) the facts are clear that the black community bears the overwhelming brunt of police brutality. Most of the victims of police brutality are people of color because those communities have greater exposure to police interaction. The more often a community is exposed to the police, the greater the likelihood someone in that community will fall into the hands of the minority of police officers who are not necessarily racist but violent and become a victim of police brutality.
So why does the black community have a much greater exposure to the police? There are a myriad of reasons (many of which are the fault of black communities and individuals in those communities and many which are not) BUT systematic racism, in my view, certainly plays a big, big role in many parts of this country. And so that needs to change, too.June 3, 2020 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1867471
“Racially motiated?” Of course not! I don’t think anyone believes that the police officer thought to himself, “I’m gonna kill this <African American>!” as he put and held his knee on Floyd’s neck. Presumably, that officer had countless opportunities to kill people prior to this event.
What happened to Floyd wasn’t racially motivated. It wasn’t a lynching. But it may well have been a result of racism. We probably will never know for sure whether this specific cop has racist attitudes, and whether he treated all citizens equally under the law. This is not the point.
The point is that there is a racist attitude which permeates all interactions between police and black people. Horror stories such as Floyd are the most outrageous expressions of this attitude, but the protest is about every incident of anti-black conduct. It’s about the demeaning treatment they suffer at routine traffic stops. It’s about the presumption of fault against them at minor accidents. It’s about the way they are treated every day of their lives. Sure, it’s about the murder of George Floyd, but it’s also about the relentless abuse of huge numbers of people.
Of course, there is no justification at all for the riots, violence, looting, etc that is currently going on. These people are criminals taking advantage of an opportunity. But this should not blind us to the truth of what happened.
As Yidden, we should understand better than most people the suffering of African-Americans. After all, we’ve been there many times in our history. We should recognize that this is wrong, and we should say so. The Torah, long before the U.S. Constitution, taught us that “all men are created equal,” and enjoy rights “endowed by their Creator.” There is no place in Hashem’s creation for racism in any form.June 3, 2020 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1867480
I put the odds of ‘besalel’ being Jewish at about 0%.June 3, 2020 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #1867485
What a rude comment. It doesn’t even make sense.June 3, 2020 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #1867487
someone in monsey: are you aware of the fact that you can click on a person’s name and see all that person’s prior posts and how long they have been registered with YWN?June 3, 2020 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1867503
Wow, so if we don’t like someone’s comment, we can question their lineage?
Even the חפץ חיים only imagined people impugning others’ frumkeit. He didn’t anticipate us asserting about each other that we are literally not עמיתך.
I can’t help but recall the Gemara, כל הפוסל וכו…
Anyway, as if it were necessary, a brief perusal of some of Besalel’s past work pretty much proves he is Jewish.June 3, 2020 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #1867509ubiquitinParticipant
Catch yourself and Besalel
Very very well saidJune 3, 2020 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1867499
Why don’t yidden realize that for every time a cop is mean to them a black is physically attacked by a cop?
By coronavirus we kept complaining that there were fines being given to Jewish stores. While I don’t what was happening with non Jewish stores, I did see videos of cops beating up blacks for not dispersing when told.
But no, definitely not a problem, no big deal, right? Ooh, I cop gave someone in boropark a 50$ ticket! He’s a vicious anti-Semite!
Yidden wake up! Blacks are at the receiving end of a lot of police violence, like it or not, it’s true.
And yes, their economic systems are terrible, they need better schooling, it’s all true, face the facts!
These Protest aren’t specifically about George Floyd, he’s just the last straw. The protests are about a general pattern of police being violent when they see black, of a constant lack of money. There’s a reason the riots are so bad now, more than in the past 10 years, because the low income neighborhoods our even worse off after coronavirus.
For the past 50 years african-Americans were Told they are the same as everybody else, but that never actually happened. The black community at large has almost no hope of getting out of the vicious cycle of poverty and crime without serious help from the government.June 3, 2020 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1867500☕️coffee addictParticipant
Concerned mom is right
However how do you fix the problem?
Personally I think it has to be a zero tolerance policy for whatever they do that’s “above the law” like blowing through red lights (with their sirens on until they pass the light then turn it off for example)June 3, 2020 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1867514
So you’ve been registered for almost 12 years. Other than that, it says nothing about you. I could certainly be mistaken in my clearly speculative post, but your original post is such ridiculous propaganda that my reaction is justified, even if incorrect.June 3, 2020 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1867530
So America has a problem of systemic racism. And what exactly do you propose to do about it? Attitude change occurs slowly, but a long series of events. These outbursts of violent crime and destruction have never succeeded. Nor have legislation attempts. The reality is that this has nothing to do with social justice. That’s just an excuse that Democrats and similar liberal idiots blabber, with the hope that they sound progressive, educated, and focused on altruistic things. Meanwhile, there is an undeniable truth. It is that this excuse permits the destruction of innocent business owners, innocent police, and anyone else these animals can access to rob, burn, and maim. And there is no social cure for crime like this, besides bringing the severity of consequences upon the perpetrators. The completely immoral and probably unconstitutional bail reform that sends violent criminals back to repeat their behavior renders the criminal justice system almost disabled. There are other cities that had their gun owning citizens protecting the businesses. Rioters stayed away. These thugs are true domestic terrorists. I would never, ever expect legislation to curb such terror. Remember that terrorists do not respect the law. But they will run away from a gun aimed at them. And a few corpses of these rats might help make the message heard. That’s deterrence, not the gobbledygook platitudes the NYC mayor and similar imbeciles utter.
Those who truly want social justice would work with the system, not burn it down.June 3, 2020 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1867602
Doing my best- i hear your pain but i think it isn’t fair for you to rant and yell at people for things they didn’t do, or things that may not quite have happened as you portray them. I am probably at least your age and none of your portrayal of jews is familiar. Did you read it? Assume it? Hear it somewhere and generalize it? It’s wonderful to always be sensitive to every one of Hashem’s creations, but not every criticism of a blk person is a condemnation. Its like the trump thing, if someone wants to say it was murder but not racism you see red and have to write that person off as all sorts of things.
Not fair. And a lot of your first paragraph is either not true, or not true outside your daled amos.June 3, 2020 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1867600
The little I know,
The other 3 officers just got charged with aiding and abetting murder, and Chauvin’s charges were raised to 2nd degree. Now, do you really think that would have happened if not for tens of police getting burned?June 3, 2020 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1867577
Someone in Monsey –
What could justify questioning someone’s Jewish lineage? עיין רש”י על הפסוק אכן נודע הדבר
Do you so strongly identify with your American political views that they define for you the meaning of Jewish identity? If so, you need to reexamine your life.June 3, 2020 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #1867559yitzymotchaParticipant
After Bloomberg spoke at the Democratic convention in 2016 I heard De Blasio on the radio say that it was a good speech even though Bloomberg is a rich person and it was the rich people who caused all the problems in this country. He kept saying it over and over.
I wonder if on some level perhaps even subconsciously, De Blasio likes it when he sees all the symbols of capitalism like the rich people’s stores being trashed.June 3, 2020 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1867567
TLIK – The “thugs” (to quote President GHWB) who are rioting deserve to prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Overwhelming force should be used to put a stop to the riots, looting, et al.
This does not address the other egregious issue at hand, which is racism.
We can and should deal with both of these problems at the same time.June 3, 2020 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1867619
I think there are two components here. (1) Why did the cop think it was appropriate to stop George Floyd and arrest him? (2) Why did they commit police brutality (aka murder)?
Although everyone is discussing the police brutality, I don’t know if police are significantly more brutal to Blacks than to Whites. I think cops that commit these heinous crimes have something that is wrong with them and police departments around the country must ensure that these kind of people are not allowed to work by them. There are a number of other remedies to police brutality which are being debated which I actyally would like to see what the oilam thinks about (e.g. repealing 50a whatever that means).
That being said, there is definitely a race factor when it comes to stopping and arresting black folks. And I have some anecdotes to prove it. (1) Ask your black middle-class law-abiding neighbor how many times he was pulled over while driving for no reason whatsoever. I know of a rich vlack person who lives in a upper class neigjborhood near Monsey who says he always gets stopped by the Ramapo PD for no reason. Senator Tim Scott (black Republican) said that in his first year in Washington, he was stopped six times for no reason. (2) For years NYC thought it was appropriate to do Stop And Frisk. Everyone here would understand that it would be anti-Semitic if NYC had a special program to deal with zoning law violations in Borough Park. George Floyd should never have been arrested in the first place. I am not suggesting like some liberals are that police should stop concentrating on high crime areas (as that leads to a vicious cycle of arrests – you are only arresting people in Black neihjbirhoods brcause that is all you see). We don’t have enough cops to put on every street corner so you ultimately must concentrate cops on worse neighborhoods. But that doesn’t give LEO the right to consider blacks inherently suspicious. That is racist.June 3, 2020 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1867620
There is something wrong that some of the commentators here in the Coffee Room can’t keep separate the threads about racist police brutality and the bolshevic attacks against America (aka rioting and looting). No amount of looting justifies murder and a racist cop murdering a black does not justify a white kid “redistributing” the merchandise in a Lois Vitton store in Portland. What don’t people get about it??June 3, 2020 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1867510HealthParticipant
catch yourself -“Sure, it’s about the murder of George Floyd,”
He wasn’t murdered. The fact that there is Civil War in America right now, doesn’t mean you have the right to write Falsehoods!June 3, 2020 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1867631
Schnitzel Bigot –
I agree (as I posted earlier) with your general point about the mistreatment of blacks by law enforcement in our society. I, too, have anecdotal evidence to support it. As you say, anyone who talks to some black people will hear that this problem is so ubiquitous that it is a fact of life for them, והמפורסם אינו צריך ראייה.
Nevertheless, as I understand it, George Floyd was arrested for passing counterfeit money. This was not an unwarranted traffic stop gone awry. The police were called by the victims of the fraud, and they responded to the call. If it would have been a simple arrest, there would be no questions. I’m not blaming Floyd for what happened to him; I’m simply responding to your remarks about the facts of the case.June 3, 2020 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1867637n0mesorahParticipant
The core issue is human dignity. The lack of it, is the root cause for both of these issues.June 3, 2020 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1867650
catch yourself – go re-read his first post and remember that we’re on a website called ‘the yeshiva world’. Perhaps you won’t see it as I did, but to me, his original post was nothing but an internet screed, seemingly straight off the pages of any of the various radical political sites. To me, it didn’t have an ounce of Torahdik tam, so, combined with the fact that it was deeply political, I was immediately suspicious. It came across as something any Russian political opertiive sowing disinformation would say. When something lacks both Torah and tam, you start to wonder.June 3, 2020 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #1867661
Doing my best:
I am pleased that the charges were upgraded and extended to the other officers. However, it is completely immoral to victimize other people, businesses, police elsewhere, to bring about this justice. I am disappointed that you consider this okay. It is flagrantly anything even indirectly or remotely connected to morality. If these animals wrecked your business and looted your entire inventory, would you excuse them like Dinkins y”sh did? You will never convince me that riots, violence, robbery and looting, and destroying someone else’s property is acceptable. You would rant and rave if you were the innocent victim. And all these victims are innocent. You know well (and there were many interviews in the media of looters that we’re caught) attesting to zero interest in George Floyd, or even the allegations of systemic racism) that these are opportunists. They know that our immoral disgrace of a mayor will absolve them of responsibility. “Hey, a black man got killed in Timbuktu. Let’s celebrate. Burn stores, loot them for merchandise. Open season on hard-working America.”. I saw a clip where a black store owner failed in stopping the looters from destroying his business.
You cannot justify evil and consider it moral. And if that’s the best you can do, you aren’t really trying.June 3, 2020 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #1867758
What does systematic racism mean? Most of the people talking about systemic racism also say that the system has to be rebuilt, that capitalism is inherently racist, and the only solution is basically bolshevikism. I don’t think that’s what you mean. What do you mean?June 3, 2020 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1867752
Someone in monsey:
If you make such a horrible accusation, you better back it up. What part of police being capable of brutality is not torahdig?? What?
And do the mods really allow such talk here? Can I call someone a ממזר? I think someone here deserves it.June 4, 2020 2:24 am at 2:24 am #1867812MistykinsParticipant
I am truly broken-hearted about this. While we don’t have evidence ‘this’ attack was racial, the officer has a history of more force with blacks, as well as several complaints (and we know for every complaint made, many more go unsaid).
And you should be furious. As I posted elsewhere, racism and anti-semitism are more closely related than you think. Both communities are looked down upon by your average goyim. Both seem to get into a lot more legal trouble (frum for minyanim/ building yeshivas/ Medicare or welfare) more than average white america. The only difference is that you won’t see a cop kneeling on a Jewish man’s neck. You won’t hear that police broke into a frum family’s house and shot an innocent woman (Breonna Taylor) because they had a no-knock warrant (their body cams were off, and there’s a lot of evidence that didn’t match the story they told).
They are right to protest. The only issue is the rioters. And there may be more blacks looting, but there are many whites smashing windows, setting off fireworks in a crowd, and throwing things at officers. They may be the same people from the “Other 98%” (Occupy Wall St) looking to damage corporate America. They could be frustrated at being locked up for so long and just want to destroy.
The brutality has gone on for too long. The police have protected each other instead of allowing the few bad cops to be arrested and fired before someone dies. Whether or not this is racial, changes have to be made. I hope it happens peacefully, but history has always shown that unless someone is greatly affected, change doesn’t happen.June 4, 2020 6:36 am at 6:36 am #1867825
Health – Of course, not all the evidence is in yet, and there is presumption of innocence, but based on what appears to have happened as of right now, yes, he was murdered. I’m not getting into the specific legal terminology and distinctions between “murder” and “manslaughter”, I’m just using common parlance. It may not have been premeditated, but George Floyd was murdered.
Someone in Monsey – I read Besalel’s first post in this topic several times. It seems to me to be perfectly coherent, spot-on, not radical in the least, and very much על פי תורה. It also appears to be apolitical. It actually compares rather favorably to your own posts. Can you point to the specific parts of it which you think are problematic?
In any case, even supposing that he is precisely your opposite in terms of his political philosophy, you have no right to level personal attacks. You most certainly are wrong to claim that someone being on the wrong side of an issue process they aren’t really Jewish.June 4, 2020 10:30 am at 10:30 am #1867859
Schnitzel bigot: I’m not sure everyone protesting is doing so to promote radical socialism although many are. There are vile people everywhere looking to hijack everything popular for their own cause and the vile among the socialists have best perfected the art.
I am basically referring to some of the things mentioned in this thread by some of the other posters – a system which unfairly and disproportionately exposes the black community to law enforcement. The system is rigged so that two individuals who lead the same exact lives, one a person of color and one not, the person of color will have to deal with law enforcement 10 times more than the other person.
I also love your username.June 4, 2020 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1867973HealthParticipant
catch yourself -“I’m not getting into the specific legal terminology and distinctions between “murder” and “manslaughter”, I’m just using common parlance”
My point was – it Wasn’t murder or manslaughter. Yes, he was killed. If there is s/o else to blame besides himself, a honest, non-biased Jury will determine that.June 4, 2020 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1868002
There is no evidence (yet) that it was racially motivated.
Nor is there any evidence that the looting and rioting have anything to do with George Floyds death.
Even if there would be proof that the crime was racially motivated, this is just one mans doing, or a small group of people. There is no reason as to why all other people around the country should now suffer because of this.
Furthermore, whatever racial inequalities or conceived thoughts people might be having, will not be fixed by looting and shutting down cities.
In fact, come to think about it, it will only make things worse. The lootings and riots are only obscuring whatever message the protests are trying to convey and making these activists all look like wild criminals that have no regard for other people’s property or life.
hey.. stop looking at me like I am second class or that I am just a thug.. ok I asked nicely, now I am going to break into your shop steal everything and beat you up just for fun.. Now you better stop thinking about me as a criminal..
And please.. let’s stop being idiots and kneel to other people as if someone has to apologize for being a different skin color than someone else. That is racism!
June 4, 2020 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1868014
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by YW Moderator-29 👨💻.
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by .
“I am basically referring to some of the things mentioned in this thread by some of the other posters – a system which unfairly and disproportionately exposes the black community to law enforcement. The system is rigged so that two individuals who lead the same exact lives, one a person of color and one not, the person of color will have to deal with law enforcement 10 times more than the other person.”
The question here is not the facts, as you stated we clearly know that the black person statistically has more chances to be exposed to the criminal justice system.
The question really is, who is to blame and how can this be fixed.
The reason why this is important because a lot in the black community are blaming white supremacy as if the person that is white-skinned has anything to do with the fact that black people are being treated a certain way.
Also, going further how can this be corrected?
I personally do not believe that the higher internal crime rate in the black community (aka black on black) has anything to do with the white person. In fact, my parents that came off the boat after stealing their houses, money, and their siblings and children were murdered had it much worse off.
In fact, they did not speak English and could not find a normal job.
While they had to work harder, they still had opportunity and ended up establishing a nice family and a decent family business.
The black person is faced with a choice, they can protest and play victim, they can claim that other peoples properties really belong to them and loot. Or, they can focus on whatever opportunity they have and climb up the ladder of success.
But stop making believe that we as a country, we as a society are racist.June 4, 2020 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1868122Old Crown HeightsParticipant
Many white people including many in the media and academia aren’t able to distinguish or consistently blur the line between thugs and black people. For all their “woke” talk, they’re the ones who consider people with dark skin less than fully human, from low expectations to thinking thugs have a “right” to riot. I watched this idiot reporter interviewing black demonstrators feeling so good about herself for being so progressive with NO CLUE how much most black people hate being told they’re “WELL SPOKEN” after they make a coherent point. Yes. Black people are from the min ha’medaber. Their speech usually correlates with their level of education. My black neighbor does not go to the demonstrations. As it was in 1979, 1991, 1992, Ferguson (I don’t remember the riots of the 1960s) the 2020 riots will hurt good black people more than anyone else. The thugs will go through what they stole and they’ll still be thugs. Finding success in life is hard work for most people. People who want to better their station can. No one can do it for you. People who want to even find a way to turn their lives around in prison. Some people have a head start. Some people get lucky. Some people get what they don’t deserve. But focusing on them doesn’t help. Sometimes it takes more than one generation. Parents sacrifice for their children. In some inner city neighborhoods kids who try to be good get beat up by young bullies and thugs. Riots won’t change that. How about the Ad Council run an unrelenting campaign telling (inner city) kids that it’s okay to be courteous to a police officer. Telling them what they can say to peer-pressure that urges them to risk their lives fighting cops.June 4, 2020 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1868138
I was not agreeing with the violence. I have said before that I think the looting is evil.
However, I was trying to explain where the black community is coming from. They have spent years in the same miserable hole, in a vicious cycle of crime, do you really think that if you had grown up in Harlem you would act that much different?
There is no hope of an education, the public schools are disasters. College is out of reach for most of them. They have spent years being constantly abused by the police. If you as a teen had been constantly thrown against the wall and frisked every time you walked in the street, would you not be angry at the organization responsible?
I know someone who bought a car of a model popular with African-Americans, for the next 2 years my she was constantly pulled over by cops “just making sure everything was alright” until she finally got rid of it. If you were brought up like that, would you not be angry? Would you maybe not respect the law?
Well that anger has unfortunately reached a boiling point, and this is the result.June 4, 2020 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #1868172
Doing my best:
You’re not doing your best, at all. You are still accepting the choice to live a life of violence because of oppression. I reject that totally.
What I observe is that a black victim of violence or murder is the awaited green light to gather in large groups, and behave like violent animals. And there are pathetically enough people to tell us innocent victims that we have to tolerate it. NO! The reality is that some young blacks don’t want to make it in life. They want the government to gift them with their creature comforts and pleasures. No, I am not generalizing to race. I am talking about the rioters. There are quite a few African Americans who abandoned that life of dependency and hedonism, and pushed themselves to get educated. And they made it. And they are wonderful people. And working along side them was no different to me than working alongside whites, or any other racial, religious, or ethnic group. Not a single employer I ever had was in the slightest discriminating. The color-blind situation was successful for all. Everyone thrived, and the work was done satisfactorily or better.
But when someone chooses not to work, to live off handouts, to demand equality (like the imbecilic gibberish that AOC and her ilk blabbered), we have a problem. It is a cultural problem. This silly voice wants someone who doesn’t work to have all the luxuries of those that do. Why? I work hard for my money, and I give a proportion to tzedokoh far above my means. For what reason must I tolerate an angry black destroying my livelihood? Not one that is remotely acceptable on any moral standard.
Stop excusing this. The greatest volume of their “anger” is not real. They fail themselves, and want society to pay for that. Not my tax dollar. Get up off your ******, get jobs, have intact families, go to school and get educated, and you’ll make it. The exposure to police is not in the slightest related to police being racist. It’s the involvement in crime. Stop morphing the facts into something that fits the liberal narrative. It’s flagrantly dishonest, and nobody wants to formulate opinions based on lies.
EditedJune 4, 2020 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1868198
The little I know,
NO ONE SAID YOU HAVE TO TOLERATE PEOPLE BURNING YOUR BUSINESS,
I will fully support you if you stay in your store and shoot looters.
That being said, when you take young men and frisk them for walking in the street, then yeah, they’re not going to respect the police or what they represent- the law!
Do you really think that you growing up in black New York would have a good shot at living nicely with a high paying job?
Well, you’d have to deal with an insufficient school. You’d have to deal with no money to go to college, you’d have to let constantly being bothered by cops “making sure everything is okay” Not get you upset. Your brother who isn’t the school goody goody might get beaten up by cops for not social distancing during an epidemic and you’ll have to just not let it get you upset. You’d probably have to deal with growing up without a father in the house. You’d have to deal with growing up in a slum.
In short, however hard you think your life is, it would be 20 times harder. You tell me it doesn’t make sense to turn to a life of crime, hate the police, hate those who had it easy.
Did you ever read the hunger games? Did it make sense to you that the district people would one day blow up? It did to me….June 4, 2020 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #1868208
Doing my best- i can’t figure out where you get your information. First point, i have no idea what city you live in but your description in the first half of your post describes how lots of jews live. We may not get targetted for walking on a street but we get targetted for other things, and pretty harshly sometimes.
But your second half… i don’t know. I think you read some articles about blck people but never met any. I worked 8 years in a school district where i was minority of minority. Jewish, straight, religious, voted republican. The “colored people” i worked with were wonderful. I small handful luved the craziness you describe but thevrest went to school, work, have more money to spend than i do (with half my salary) are thoughtful, and ethical. Some dragged themselves up from bad places but many of them had city college degrees, others had masters and doctrates.
I don’t think you are willing to hear anything that doesn’t fit your outlook but mist of these people you are defending are willing to agree with me, not you. There are lots more opportunities out there. And for those who are stuck, there are organizations working hard to offer change.
And guess what, you wantbto know what we would do if the victim was a yid? As if it never has been? When rubashkin was singled out oin a travesty of unjust sentencing due to being jewish, the unity video was produced.June 5, 2020 8:18 am at 8:18 am #1868235
You’re 100% right. I don’t think I will ever be able to believe that people would purposely put themselves in the living conditions that exist in the “hood”.
About the Unity Video, what exactly did it accomplish?June 5, 2020 10:06 am at 10:06 am #1868273
Also, I work on a daily basis with a number of African Americans, some who I have a lot of respect for.
Whatever there is going out there, they are not at a greater disadvantage than my parents that came off the ship from Europe after losing everything, family, business, their home, and everything else. They had zero secular education, English was a foreign language and was exposed to their fair of antisemitism.
There is no evidence of systemic racism in this country as much as there is for systemic oppression by some leaders in the black and democratic party that would have a lot to lose if the black community no longer is the victim.
More importantly, whatever is going on in the black community has nothing to do with the people that are being accused of being racists.June 5, 2020 10:07 am at 10:07 am #1868271
Doing my best,
“I was not agreeing with the violence. I have said before that I think the looting is evil.”
So where are all the leaders of the black community and democratic party denouncing the looting? Their silence gives the impressions as if they are ok with it.
“However, I was trying to explain where the black community is coming from. They have spent years in the same miserable hole, in a vicious cycle of crime, do you really think that if you had grown up in Harlem you would act that much different?”
Well said, however taking it out on the white man and the country as a whole, by accusing our country of systemic racism as a reason for them being who they are, is just going to make it much worse for them.
They need to fix their internal problems for any change to happen. Yet their leaders are not interested in doing so. Playing the victim works well for a few, the rest follow behind.
“know someone who bought a car of a model popular with African-Americans, for the next 2 years my she was constantly pulled over by cops “just making sure everything was alright” until she finally got rid of it.”
Not buying it.June 5, 2020 10:13 am at 10:13 am #1868282
Nobody said purposely put themselves in. It’s about pulling out or letting others pull you out.
What did the video accomplish? Did you forget that you said/alluded to the idea that if a Jew was victimized maybe we would behave the same way.
My response was that one response to such victimization was to create a music video. Not quite the same as smash>ng store windows.June 5, 2020 10:42 am at 10:42 am #1868266
Nobody said purposely put themselves in. It’s about pulling out or letting others pull you out.
What did the video accomplish? Did you forget that you said/alluded to the idea that if a Jew was victimized maybe we would behave the same way. My response was that one response to such victimization was to create a music video. Not quite the same as smash>ng store windows.June 5, 2020 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1868265
I haven’t a care in the world about whether they “respect” the law or not. And whether they pay taxes or not is none of my business. But these chayos demand the right to inflict damage on me. Their feelings are not my issue. They can chant all the awful expletives about police and politicians, and i wouldn’t bat an eyelash. But their conscious choice is to assume the “right” to victimize everything they wish, to destroy my business, to loot my merchandise, and we still have those who defend and protect this evil.
You are correct in noting that stop and frisk is irritating. But if these actions consistently yielded no wrongdoing, they would stop. But that is sadly not true. The stop and frisk produced sizable numbers of possession of drugs and weapons, and led to legitimate arrests. You advocate that we go soft on crime to pacify the cultures that glorify crime. NO! Never. The reason no one used stop and frisk on Jews in Willy or BP is because it would be an utter waste of time. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with crime. And as long as we reward any community for embracing and engaging in crime, it will continue. It is totally untrue to call this racism.
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