No mechitza?

I hope you got much Nachas

The correct answer, that Yiddisheit is not about personal emotional feelings, would not be the right thing to say. So nodding along and saying something noncommittal like you did is the only response.

If her singing inspires you so much, sit down to a shabbos seuda and sing zemiros. Better yet, both of you come join us at our seuda and join in our zemiros.

Joseph it seems you are trying to dramatize the question. But it seems like an identical scenario. Except that it has nothing to do with frumkeit as I just a easily could have been a kosher restaurant on Sunday.

Joseph

either ZD’s or balebos’s excellent responses would work in your scenario as well

Gray Matter. Why do you assume a coworker would outright turn down a polite invitation.
As for kol isha, i’m, really not concerned a non frum teenager with mental disabilities, as the OP puts it, would do much singing of zemiros. The point here is, the coworker in this scenario (I highly doubt it actually happened) is not being very nice and friendly as he takes a dig at frum people, no reason to respond in kind, but invite them to see how beautiful it is to keep shabbos, the torah way.

Joseph,

While I’m not sure what the proper response is, your comparison is silly. There’s nothing inherent about the treif restaurant that allows them to sit together. They could just as easily sit together in a kosher restaurant with no compromises. Wheras they can’t sit together in a frum shul during davening.

So those in favor of non-Orthodoxy being okay are similarly in favor of the father being Mechallel Shabbos in my example? You said he could’ve gone to a kosher restaurant but you raised no objections to that it was on Shabbos.

And given that there’s no kosher restaurants open on Shabbos, which is the only day he doesn’t work (he works Sunday through Friday) and could take his mentally ill daughter out to eat, surely therefore you’d be okay with a non-kosher restaurant given the circumstances.

I don’t see why you need to have a nice response here. This coworker is putting down Orthodox beliefs.
I would have responded, “I’m glad you had a good experience, but I don’t appreciate the insult to my beliefs. Saying that Conservative is better than Orthodox is inappropriate. I don’t try to convince you that my beliefs are better than yours, and I’d appreciate you showing me the same level of respect.”

There are actually two separate points here; what the best response is, and whether or not the OP’s response was acceptable.

The easier one is the second. It clearly wasn’t. You may not like Joseph’s analogy, and you may choose to ignore him, but that doesn’t make his point wrong. He, and DaMoshe, and apushatayid, and 5ish, and CA are correct.

As far as the correct response, I don’t see how you can ignore the affront to the Torah. How to show disagreement with the sentiment expressed is hard to say, especially not knowing the co-worker or the relationship.

meseren wrote:

“I like zdad’s, balebos’s and GreyMatter’s responses. ”

I agree.

The father in this story has already formed an opinion. There isn’t much to be gained by trying to disprove him. It would likely descend into an argument of “My way is the best way.” “No it isn’t.” “Yes it is.” “No it isn’t.” etc. It won’t get very far. I’ve been there. I know.

It would be better IMHO not to take the bait, and instead to find some non-judgmental, mutually-relatable common ground, such as the love that parents have for their children. Once you make that connection, you can start to build from there.

One of the reasons that movements such as Conservative and Reform exist is because people wanted to do their own thing while maintaining at least some flavor of Yiddishkeit, or because they felt judged in an Orthodox community. Now that they are so far removed from the Yiddishkeit of their grandparents and great-grandparents, we are spending millions of dollars in kiruv to try to bring them back.

Sadly, the whole point may be moot in a generation or two, as Conservative now finds itself in a state of irreversible demographic decline. Their congregations are shrinking, their synagogues and schools are closing, and their members are older and fewer. According to one survey, only 11% of American Jews under age 30 identify as Conservative.

So connect with your co-worker now, because the odds are that his grandchildren and your grandchildren will never meet each other in a Jewish context.

I don’t think it s helpful to him or his religious future to start fighting about the utility of mechitza’s. Even if that would be a good idea the timing couldn’t be worse. It is often only appropriate to fight malicious people, but then it become insensible.

Was it explicit that the daughter was post-bas-mitzvah age? Little girls come into the men’s section pretty commonly in Orthodox shuls.

Either way, he was probably just using her as a sob story to bash Orthodoxy. He can say whatever he wants, and if you defend your beliefs you might as well be Jewish ISIS. It’s a societal problem, not a personal one.

By the way, everything Joseph has said here is true and shouldn’t be controversial on a frum site. The lengths to which some of you have gone to disagree with him on this thread is borderline kefira at best.

This thread came up on a google search. These days are loooong gone! Let them mock the mechitza, it is not going anywhere. Where is the kefira in not; or the slightest obligation to defend Orthodoxy? I would have said, “that’s great! Bring her to my shul, and I’ll find a place for you to sit with her!” It is not a jewish thing to worry about theology. Just look at how few of you are willing to back up your own theologies.