April 16, 2013 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #947191
I’m talking about applying for a national/international company not a heimishe one. So your point about YK and forgiveness is incorrect in this case.
The ease with which you justify lying for financial gain is disturbing. I wasn’t aware that M’dvar Sheker Tirchak only applied between Jews or only applied if you thought there might be future consequences.
The WolfApril 16, 2013 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #947192☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Troll (maybe a familiar one)April 16, 2013 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #947194
frumnotyeshivish- something like that. the q is if i stop college to find myself, or keep going.
zahavasdad- right, i hear that. re handling stress- we all need to learn to handle stress better, dont we? and i’ve dealt with plenty of stress in my life. college doesn’t seem to let up or give recovery though. also, its a different kind of stress…
squeak- even if it’s a degree in tennis and i’m applying to a dental office job?
Torah613Torah- thanks. it IS hard. this past while, my marks are plummeting, including a fail (:( I was an A student!!) so that loses money too… I am already this term being satisfied with my Cs even. but the fail i got… yeah. And yeah, while i’m accepting my Cs, i really need the As for grad school. if i hadnt planned on grad school at the beginning, i dont think i ever would have started college at all. but anyhow.
i will NOT do summer classes because i NEED the break. it’s not even a choice if i want to be mentally healthy. ruchniyus pursuits, but don’t immunize. On your thread about brainwashing? yeah that stuff. and the words i hear, things i see- i’ve lost my sensitivity to too much of it. thanks for the advice.
pba- thank you for saying it. i sometimes wonder if its just me, and people are right when they tell me i’m not doing hishtadlus by believing it deeply.
wiy- no hard feelings here! but i still wont say :), sorry
gamanit- i actually think in the secular world, only the brains or people with specific goals consider college a must. a lot just do certificate programs etc. I am a hard worker, and have quite a bit of office work experience at least. in fact, my biggest work complaints has always been sitting around doing nothing, because i work too quickly for what they expect. I hate wasting time when i’m being paid to work.
swiet- um. no. if you were even serious. which i hope you weren’t. i’ll stick to honestly thanks. for that deal, i could just pay to get my hw and papers written for me
morahRach- fyi, i’m probably close to your age. not a steerable teen :), just looking to hear. but thanks for your concern and for your advice and the details you provide.April 16, 2013 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #947195sw33tMember
1- this swiet username is confusing
2-non heimish companies are MOST likely to do a background check, and every job I’ve held has done so, even when my position was only an intern.
3-most people who are succesful without college degrees own some sort of business (a good ex of this is all the diamond dealers on 47th st). But if you dont want to have a business and have a career, you need a degree to even be considered.
4-have you heard of bulka college?
Last, I really think it will be good for you to finish. For job prospects, and to know that you completed something. From my first semester I wanted to quit college. I hated it and felt like it was getting me nowhere. After I graduated and didn’t have a job straight away I felt like I had wasted four years of my life- so trust me, i’ve been there. But in the end, things fell into place and I know now that quitting would have been so so stupid.April 16, 2013 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #947196kgh5771Participant
Please don’t listen to swiet. Never lie on a resume. Especially regarding education. Most employers do some sort of background check. Even if an employer misses it initially and you get employed, if the employer finds out about the lie, you can be fired for cause. And that follows you your entire career.April 16, 2013 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #947197swietMember
It doesn’t follow you. Former employers don’t pass on negative info, as a general rule, since they are afraid of getting sued. (If it went to court the former employer will have the burden of proof to demonstrate the info they passed on was accurate, and most corporations don’t want the burden even if they feel they are correct.) And worse comes to worse you can omit that employer from your CV.April 16, 2013 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #947199
It doesn’t follow you.
You just don’t get it, do you?
Leaving aside from the moment that you’re wrong about no one ever finding out (HR people talk, even if off the record), there’s just the fact that it’s flat-out dishonest and wrong. M’dvar Sheker Tirchak doesn’t stop at one’s resume. Prohibitions against fraud don’t stop at one’s resume either.
The WolfApril 16, 2013 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #947201danielaParticipant
let’s not feed the troll….. oh wait, it’s too much fun to resist. Dear troll, if you are convinced it works, please by all means feel free to lie on your resume, I am not going to stop you.April 16, 2013 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #947202🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
Yeah. If you want to get a great job swiet, I suggest you put down that you have a phd in neurosurgery. That’s very well paying.April 16, 2013 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #947203rationalfrummieMember
According to all studies done on the subject, college graduates make way more money than people who have high school degrees. I would stay and finish the degree- while the environment might not be conducive to Torah and spirituality, in the long term, you’ll feel more secure financially, and be able to live w/out worrying as much about money so yu can focus on Torah, mitzvos, and ruchniyus. It’s short term loss for a long term gain.April 16, 2013 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #947204squeakParticipant
“even if it’s a degree in tennis and i’m applying to a dental office job?”
Perhaps, though a degree in tennis might not count for much anywhere. But any ordinary major would be fine no matter where you end up; you might be asked to talk about why you chose to work as a dental hygienist after studying english literature in college, but in my opinion that would make a good interview topic if you had a good story behind the decision (something better than simply that english people have bad teeth)April 16, 2013 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #947205🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
SaysMe – I wanted to write yesterday but didn’t have a keyboard available. Now that I have time to answer there are too many posts to read through so pick out the most intelligent, sensible posts and assume that I would have written the same thing had I had a chance.April 16, 2013 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #947206
SaysMe: Is it possible that there is something you don’t want to share with us that is causing your struggles? It doesn’t make sense that all of a sudden an A student becomes a C student and even considers dropping out.
That something, is probably the issue, more than any ruchnius issues. Or you would have transferred much earlier. Did you fail this semester or last semester?
You really don’t need the As for grad school. You should play whatever it is that is stressing you up into a story. It’s about playing the game right, and your grades are only a small part of the decision. They want diversity. Basically, everything that’s bad for shidduchim, is good for graduate school.
I hear you about summer classes.
“ruchnius pursuits, but don’t immunize. On your thread about brainwashing? yeah that stuff. and the words i hear, things i see- i’ve lost my sensitivity to too much of it.”
SaysMe, this sounds really interesting, but I honestly don’t really understand what you’re saying here. I do understand about losing sensitivity.April 17, 2013 12:31 am at 12:31 am #947207rationalfrummieMember
“Basically, everything that’s bad for shidduchim, is good for graduate school
Great line- and it’s so true!April 17, 2013 2:45 am at 2:45 am #947208
rationalfrummie- i hear that, and it’s part of my uncertainty. But in yiddishkeit, the end doesn’t really justify the means.
Squeak- hmm. Not that you’ll have THE answer, but why on earth do employers want a BA that was gotten as an end goal?? Whats the point of it? So now everyone needs a BA to do anything, and it just loses its worth. that concept of just a BA for a job in a different field just seems irrational to me. And for that, i’m sure most people would do those online programs you finish in a year, but that’s not really the equivalent of anything… Yeah i know that didnt come out in a logical sentence.
Syag- awwww come on. How about a summary in point form?
T613- yes there is i guess :). The fact that i never wanted to go to college and was against it hashkafically. But my parents ‘made’ me go, and i did. And i spoke to a psych/rav then who unintentionally gave me the mindset to make the most of it, try to succeed and feel good about it while not trying too much. And i didnt have to work too hard to get the As, so it all worked well. Then i saw myself being affected and it made it into a struggle to go to school, and gave the whole thing an acrid taste, but i pushed myself. And eventually i was pushed over the edge? The difficulty jumped a lot this year and the work got overwhelming. That stress and timedrain affected my ruchniyus too i’m sure. I failed a course this semester. I wanted more than ever before (which was always a lot) to get out of college. Got over the past year too many comments from old friends about how i disappeared and only ever saw or spoke to friends at weddings, with the exception of a handful who i had a bit more contact with. My regular shiur i went to conflicted with a neccesary class, so that one weekly outing was out of my schedule. Seeing my ruchni losses killed me. I’ve changed. Etc etc etc?
Oh, and in the field i’m aiming for, marks do count. Above anything else.April 17, 2013 3:05 am at 3:05 am #947209charliehallParticipant
I can’t believe that an allegedly frum Yid would even CONSIDER lying on ones resume. Have you never heard of geneivat da’at? Woe to you! Woe to your yeshiva teachers!! Woe to your parents who wasted their tuition money!!!
Besides, you WILL get caught. And fired. And possibly prosecuted. Of course, that is a good way to become a full time learner in a prison kollel. My rabbi is a prison chaplain and he would love a new chavruta. He won’t eat the prison food, though, as he doesn’t trust the hechsher.April 17, 2013 4:17 am at 4:17 am #947210☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Have you never heard of geneivat da’at?
It’s also geneivas mammon, as his salary is being paid on false pretenses.April 17, 2013 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #947212swietMember
Charlie: The top execs who got caught (as happens and is reported every 4 or 5 years) got away with it for decades before getting some promotion or something and it coming out. And compare that to the countless many many more who never got caught up. So, yeah, you can be fired. But meanwhile you had a high-paying job for many years that you would never otherwise have had. Oh, and show me a prosecution please for having an incorrect college degree listed on a CV. It never happens. And if you dig up some one in a million such thing, it is less likely than winning the lottery. Compare it to all the times that someone is caught and, at worst, he loses the job (he never would have otherwise have gotten) and nothing more. And the chances of even that much occurring is tiny.
you are wrong though. so stop trying to post that point.April 17, 2013 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #947213
How about if, instead of harping on the fact that you won’t get caught (on which you’re wrong, but let’s leave it for the moment), how about telling us how you justify it with regard to the prohibitions on lying, theft and fraud?
Or are you so amoral that everything’s okay with you as long as you can get away with it?
The WolfApril 17, 2013 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #947214
Oh, wait… swiet is Joseph?
Well then, that explains it — for he is a completely unrepentant liar and fraudster as evidenced by the use of multiple screen names.
The WolfApril 17, 2013 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #947215sweitMember
getting real sick of this game, JoeApril 17, 2013 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #947216🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
I always wonder if every troll is called Joseph and the original Joseph is long gone… Doesn’t make swiet any less of a troll though.
no, this is the real deal.April 17, 2013 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #947217popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I always wonder if every troll is called Joseph and the original Joseph is long gone
It’s like the name pharaohApril 17, 2013 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #947218
SaysMe: Can you give me some concrete examples?April 17, 2013 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #947219squeakParticipant
Saysme: If you want my take, its misplaced nostalgia of sorts. Most traditional employers right now are old school folks, and measure you by their own perhaps outdated standards. I got a BA so I want to see you do the same if you want to work with me. Why you were a philosophy major at Edison who decided to go for a career in finance is a story they can respect, even though logically it may make no sense to value that over no degree at all. As time passes employers will get wise to the online degree scam and learn to value it appropriately (as they did with BTL and then with Touro).
Government jobs are a different story and might have pay scales or requirements that incent or require the degree.
Again, this is all applicable when we are talking about a career that doesn’t have specific BA requirements. Obviously anything in the medical field is going to have specific requirements, but I’m talking about the careers where knowledge by any means is the requirement.April 18, 2013 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #947220
t613- of struggles? Ehm no
squeak- that sound about right. Silly though. And yeah, i def understand about gov’t or job with that specific BA requirement. That part makes sense at least!April 19, 2013 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #947221
SaysMe: I wrote a long post to you, and then deleted it, because I don’t think you’re really interested in what I had to say.
It sounds to me like you’ve made up your mind. You want to be completely pure, college is making you less sensitive, therefore you are going to leave college.
It’s up to you. I think the posters in this thread have given you important information. I hope you process it and ask someone for advice before making a decision you may regret in the future.April 19, 2013 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #947222AriellahParticipant
it’s good for girls to go to college to support there husbands learning in kollelApril 19, 2013 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #947223
t613- i’m sorry you feel that way about me. i opened this thread because i haven’t made up my mind, and i can argue it both ways. I am very much appreciating and thinking about the posts here, and am not making any decisions alone or spontaneously. Thank you for your previous posts.April 21, 2013 3:25 am at 3:25 am #947224
SaysMe: Glad to hear that. Sorry but it’s just that I recently interacted with some people in a similar situation so I am familiar with some of the issues involved.
I’m glad that you are thinking it over. I sincerely think that you should stay in college.April 21, 2013 4:56 am at 4:56 am #947225WIYMember
You mind elaborating what saysme can be referring to and how college affects girls?
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