No more excuses
- This topic has 8 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 3 months ago by klugeryid.
December 15, 2019 8:00 am at 8:00 am #1810788
The Jews in the wilderness of Brooklyn, Far Rockaway, Monsey, Lakewood, Jersey City, Miami Beach, Boca, and Los Angeles had new excuses last week not to make Aliyah – they sounded something like this:
1. The justice system in Israel is determined to destroy the right, the Prime Minister has been charged with corruption and fraud, the secular left wants to erase the Jewish Identity of the State, there’s no butter in the supermarkets, and now there’s bus service on Shabbat in Tel Aviv.
Wait one minute! Doesn’t this sound familiar? The Spies in the Wilderness said pretty much the same thing – the Land of Israel is full of dangerous giants and idol worshippers. Plus, in the Promised Land, we will have to work to make a living without being able to rely on the manna from Heaven.
-Not only that – without the Clouds of Glory to protect us, we will have to create a government, and a regular army with reserve duty, and an economy to sustain the nation, with a system of transportation, hospitals, water and sanitation departments, a housing industry, a school system for all ages, police force, port authority, welfare system, a department of foreign affairs…. Gevalt! When will we have time to study Torah?
2. It is far better to stay in America where the Government of the United State takes care of our needs, and we don’t have to bother with getting rid of sewage by ourselves, or fighting in the army, or with building bridges, tunnels, and roads.
-The goyim can take care of all that, and we will remain free to study Torah, make money for ourselves, enjoy the good life, send our kids to the best colleges, and not worry about their getting killed in the army, G-d forbid.
-When the Mashiach comes, we will go to Israel, when there is no longer any political corruption and war, and a Jew can sit and learn Torah all day without having to get his hands dirty building the country.
-When you look at things in a superficial light, it could be that the Jews of the Diaspora, and the Spies in the wilderness, were right. Nonetheless, Hashem called them rebels.
Avraham Avinu (Abraham the Patriarch) could also have argued with Hashem, maintaining that living in Eretz Yisrael was dangerous,
Avraham Avinu (Abraham the Patriarch) could also have argued with Hashem, maintaining that living in Eretz Yisrael was dangerous, with idol worshippers all over the country, and not a kosher bakery or beit knesset to be found. But Avraham didn’t offer any excuses. He packed up his belongings and made Aliyah.
As the children of Avraham Avinu, we have inherited his genes. Every Jew can make Aliyah, even if the political establishment is loaded with problems and there is no butter in the Land. After all, the politics of America isn’t so kosher either, and if new olim can’t find butter for their bagels, then let them eat humus!
Now it is this week. And, sadly, it is not so safe in America either. How about following Abraham?December 15, 2019 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #1810973GadolhadorahParticipant
It is safe to assume that Moishiach will wait until after the next election in March before making any final travel plans.December 16, 2019 6:20 am at 6:20 am #1811040
Dor, on the contrary. If the pols are correct, he is just about the only one who can prevent another one and another one. Unless, of course, enough frum Jews make aliya to tip the election. Each (approximately) 37,200 is worth one Knesset seat.December 17, 2019 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1811426Jewish Music LoverParticipant
Gadol, that’s kefira. Mashiach can come at any time.December 17, 2019 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1811438knaidlachParticipant
Gadolhador, i enjoy your humor, but not on the cheshbon of galus. we say THREE TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY לישועתך קוינו כל היום. we dont wanto wait another day.December 17, 2019 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1811439
Only difference is
There hashem told us to go to e y
Here he told us to stay out
There the rebels were in the wilderness
Here they are in the country of Israel
All of your arguments are self made up after you knew what you wanted to answer.
But they all start after accepting an unproven point that needs to be proven.
Who says we are supposed to go en mass to live in e y?
Maybe we are supposed to stay in galus
With all its problems
I certainly don’t know
But to uproot oneself,
And certainly to demand of others to do so, one must be totally sure he is right.
You have not even begun to do that.December 18, 2019 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #1811868
K, when did Hashem tell you that? Ramban says that it is a Torah obligation in our time.December 18, 2019 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #1811886Reb EliezerParticipant
Ameica is now Babel. Whoever moves from Babel to EY violates an Asei because we must stay in CH’L until Meshiach arrives.December 19, 2019 7:17 am at 7:17 am #1812205
To bring a Ramban as if that closes the discussion is disingenuous at best.
Of course you will find many ראשונים and on who say one should live in e y.
And if you choose to follow that שיטת החיים, כל הכבוד!
But to present it as if you are unaware that there is another position in diametric opposition to that one, just makes you look like a fool.
We are all aware of the satmer Rebbe’s position. Which is well thought out and fully documented.
To just flat out ignore it means you are not interested in a discussion.
I personally did not stake out a position here.
How could I?
This is an age old מח with no possible solution.
I’m just commenting on your strident tones of ”what’s your excuse now ”
Why does anyone need to excuse themselves from not doing something that may entail many לאווין ושבועות if they do it???
אדרבה they need ironclad proof that it’s OK to do it before they take such a step.December 19, 2019 7:18 am at 7:18 am #1812206
Besides which, there are answers on a more pragmatic level other than the ones you baited.
I’ll just give you one.
Statistically, people who move to e y while their children are in their 8-18 year old ages, have way higher percentages of children going off the Derech.
Not a very comforting thought for a frum yid
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