No more shopping bags!

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  • #1827868

    rightwriter
    Participant

    Starting March 1,2020 plastic bags are banned. Get used to bringing your own “reusable” bags and have them ready on your person just in case you need to go grab something from the store. Are we going backwards? What’s this insanity who wants to keep bags with them at all times in case they need to go shopping? Either that or pay a fee for some paper bag that will likely rip and take up half of your car, that is if the store even carries them. This and the planned proposal for east river bridge tolls going in and out of Manhattan, is there anything more they can do to drive everyone out of New York City? Why don’t we ban soda cans and plastic bottles so they don’t get thrown out as litter? Just being your own reusable mug if you want to get some soda from the stores fountain!

    #1827901

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Right is wrong. Get over it. 31 of the 50 states (plus D.C.) now prohibit plastic bags, including Oregon, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut and Delaware, Maryland, and California. We’ve been using several canvas bags for nearly 10 years years for shopping and just keep them in the trunk of the car. They are much stronger than plastic or paper bags, hold a lot more and easier to carry in the parking lot. If you do any research, you will see that plastic bags are among the most problematic from a landfill and recycling perspective. Its no big deal unless you want to kvetch about it but within the decade, they will be prohibited in the most of the world.

    #1827917

    akuperma
    Participant

    Its a stupid idea that hurts the poor and promotes disease (reusable bags attract and spread germs). I suggest voting out the politicians who dreamed up the idea.

    #1827918

    rightwriter
    Participant

    GadolHadora- “Right is wrong. Get over it. 31 of the 50 states (plus D.C.) now prohibit plastic bags, including Oregon, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut and Delaware, Maryland, and California.”

    edited  let me begin by asking why you feel the need to spin my name on every reply. You aren’t even doing it right.

    Secondly, New York is the second state for the ban after California not sure where you got 31. And good for you for keeping 100 tote bags in your car. Not everyone likes to have random trash filling up their car. And what If you don’t have a car or are just randomly going into a store for a few things without your car? Should you keep 20 tote bags in your back pocket just in case the need arises for them?

    You say they aren’t recyclable. Number one thing people do with a plastic bag is reuse them from carrying other things or as garbage bags.
    If they really wanted to save the environment they can use biodegradable bags which have been around for a long time already. What about the trees being affected now from all the paper bags which btw will be littering the streets as well. Did you forget why they switched to plastic in the first place? To save trees? If this is about littering they can enforce littering and decrease the issue. Why don’t we ban paper napkins from the bagel store while we’re at it since they are seen tumbling away with the wind everywhere?

    We are going backwards. This has nothing to do with plastic bags and everything to do with liberals getting their illogical way of things and the government getting rich off bag tax. Most retailers are upset since it cost a lot to ship paper bags and will have to pay more to order them. Reusable totes are unsanitary and just inconvenient. Unless you invent totes that fold up to the size of a quarter which you can keep several of in your pocket at all times, this system is going to cause an uproar.

    Are you also justifying the tolls that are proposed to take effect just to enter and leave Manhattan? Why don’t we also have a toll on the BQE and Belt I mean that will surely help with traffic won’t it? Oh ya and all this while raising all the existing tolls and subway fare without even repairing and upgrading the subway system and roads which is already happening. Great idea.

    #1827923

    JustHavingFun
    Participant

    Overall, getting rid of disposable plastic bags in the environment is a good thing. However, carrying around bags, I fear, will be one more thing to devolve onto women; men will likely pay for the bag. Women already carry so much and do the bulk of the shopping. An alternative that would better serve customers and vendors would be to use biodegradable plastic bags. The technology is there. The price will come down as demand increases.

    Curious: will men shlep bags happily/easily? It’s one thing to have a car and keep bags there all the time. I live in an area where everybody drives. It’s another thing in a city environment like Manhattan where most rely upon public transportation.

    On another note, remember that it is incumbent on Jews to protect our environment. Encourage recycling and judicious use of materials. We throw away so much stuff!

    #1827944

    takahmamash
    Participant

    I think there are more important things going on in the world to worry about than plastic bags. Just deal with it and move on.

    #1827948

    Abba_S
    Participant

    This will end up hurtng local retailers as more consumers will buy online or the retailers will have to provide home delivery. This will probably reduce spur of the moment purchases as you have to plan how much you can fit in your bag. I think any savings in sanitation cost will be offset by losses in sales tax revenue. Reduction in local retail sales will result in layoffs costing more in welfare benefits.

    #1828012

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The supermarkets will use a lot more boxes than they currently are. They charge for them.
    My biggest question is: now what are we going to use to throw out diapers?

    #1828015

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @abbaS

    Youe logic is faulty, no one is going to start buying all their milk and eggs on line because they don’t get a free cheap plastic bag in the local supermarket

    #1828037

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Why are garbage bags different than shopping bags?

    #1828045

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Here in CT the ban went into effect last July 1. It has been an easy adjustment. I keep a bag full of bags in each car and take what I need into the store when I shop.

    Thin plastic bags for produce, dairy, meat are still available free in stores, so one doesn’t have to worry about dripping into reusable bags.

    Some stores have paper bags available at no charge (Trader Joe’s for example). In Costco or Aldi I just use cardboard boxes to pack up my purchases.

    This is no big deal and much better for the environment and our grandchildren’s world

    #1828055

    kollelman
    Participant

    Like all leftists ideas – sounds/feels good; in reality, silly, annoying and expensive. I now believe S’dom was a leftist utopia and we’re witnessing how it all began.

    #1828057

    bk613
    Participant

    @ctlawyer
    Its different here in NYC or an urban area. It will be harder to “run to the corner store for a few items” or stop off at a local store on my walk from the subway to my house. People will start shopping more exclusively at larger supermarkets and small/local businesses are likely to suffer.

    #1828082

    just me
    Participant

    To all you non-NYC people, here most people use public transportation to go to work. To start shlepping bags to work then home again to pick up a few items after work IS a tircha.
    Yes, there are more important things in the world, but here in NYC, the government is making life uncomfortable. This bag thing is annoying unless you keep them in a car, but here it is getting harder to get around in a car. The speed limit is 15 – 25 mph, depending where you are. They are NARROWING the highways instead of making them able to carry more cars. The trains and buses don’t run on a normal schedule. Our Mayor would like to eliminate all free street parking.
    It is like the city would like to go back to the 1950s when most people didn’t have cars and people used paper bags (which often would fall apart mid-use).
    We need a government that is responsive to the people’s needs.

    #1828098

    1
    Participant

    Liberals like making things more difficult for the average person. Their ideas seem nice on paper but they are often useless in real life.

    #1828109

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    My state just went bag free, my town has been bag free for 10+years. For those of you complaining about taking mass transit and wanted to stop and shop on the way home there are solutions to your problem. You can pay and buy a bag, you can also purchase a very lightweight and compact bag online or in a store.Stores where I live have a wide variety of non disposable bags for sale, the majority cost .99-$1.50. Grocery stores locally still have paper bags for produce and biodegradable (cornstarch) bags for meat. (An enterprising Yid can make a few bucks by selling a variety of non disposable bags for shopping.) I can fit at least 4 compact ripstop bags in my small (6″x9″) purse with room to spare. I keep a couple in my rain coat pocket too. I’m old enough to remember a time before plastic or paper bags at stores. We managed then and we can manage now.

    #1828128

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Right is CORRECT (no pun intended) ….to correct my prior posting, cities in 31 states have adopted some form of prohibition on plastic bags, not 31 statewide bans. I cannot post the link but you can google plastic bag ban state by state to get the complete listing. In most states, the bans are enacted at the city/county level not statewide. In response, a number of states have enacted preemption laws prohibiting their localities from adopting such bans. These states include Ohio, Missouri, Idaho, Arizona, Wisconsin, Indiana and Florida .

    #1828153

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “I’m old enough to remember a time before plastic or paper bags at stores. We managed then and we can manage now.“

    Amil is probably old enough to remember no cell phones too so he would be perfectly fine if the government banned cell phones too (same goes with internet)

    🙄

    #1828169

    rightwriter
    Participant

    @just me- aside for speed limit and cameras at every corner, they are trying to put tolls on all bridges into and out of Manhattan and will likely get their way. And noone can do anything about it. New Yorkers aren’t stigmatized as rude and neurotic for no reason. This city does its best to make them that way.

    And to all those saying you can carry a bag with you. Look, idk about you but most people don’t feel like carrying around a bag like a homeless everywhere just in case they need to visit the store to pick a few things up. And if they give biodegradable bags for meat, why not just switch to biodegradable rather than eliminating bags altogether?

    And while we are at it let’s eliminate plastic bottles, soda cans plastic straws, and the like. Paper napkins also just being your own handkerchief to any restaurant or bagel store you visit. Why the need to go backwards? And since when is using paper from trees better for the environment suddenly? Weren’t we always trying to save paper/trees? Why don’t we eliminate cars and refrigerator me altogether it’ll be better for the environment. Horses actually help with fertilizing the soil. We should go back to that.

    #1828171

    bk613
    Participant

    “You can pay and buy a bag, you can also purchase a very lightweight and compact bag online or in a store”

    So my options are to pay for a paper bag or keep reusable bags in every coat and jacket pocket that I own. But what happens in the summer? Do I need to start keeping reusable bags in my pants pockets?

    #1828172

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Coffee addict I sure am. But frankly I seldom carry my cell phone now that I’m retired. (My first cell phone was one of those huge things as big as a car battery. It was more of a novelty than a necessity.) I don’t need to be interrupted when I’m socializing or shopping or at the movies. Typically I will take the phone if I’m driving out of town. If I miss a call there is always voicemail or a text can be left.

    #1828176

    bk613
    Participant

    Why are people who pay with SNAP or WIC entitled to free bags? Do the less fortunate have any less of an obligation to help the environment? Or is this really just another tax that the idiot left wing government is levying on the middle class.

    #1828191

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @coffee Addict
    Amil is a female using her husband’s CR account

    #1828194

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    The only way this Insanity stops is by voting out the nanny State Socialist Leftist Democrats. This is insane! It should not be allowed!

    #1828196

    Milhouse
    Participant

    CTlawyer, how wonderful for you that you have a car, and keep bags in it. Most of us in NYC do not drive casually around, and when we buy something we DEPEND on plastic bags to get it home. Paper bags will not work because they have no handles. If I can’t get a bag from the store, and I don’t happen to have shlepped a bag with me I WILL NOT BE ABLE BUY THINGS, because I will have no way to get them home on the subway. Even if I have taken a bag with me, I will only be able to buy as much as fits in that one bag. If I pass a store and see something good on sale, I will not be able to buy it in quantity unless I go around everywhere with five bags, just in case. This is insane.

    Also, I will have to start buying garbage bags. And pet owners will have to start buying bags for that. What is the purpose served by all this? There is an almost UNLIMITED supply of landfill, so don’t drei me a kop about the garbage problem.

    #1828215

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Amil. All very good points. We’ve been bag-free for 8 or 9 years and not a real issue, even for mass transit ursers. For the occasional shopping trips when you don’t have a car or shopping car, the paper bags or cheap multi-use bags work just fine. For most of my friends , getting used to the paper/ bamboo straws and recyclable shot glasses at the Kiddush clubs has been a bigger challenge.

    #1828214

    Milhouse
    Participant

    I remember a time before many of the vaccines we have now. We managed then (except the ones who died unnecessarily) and we can manage now without them. Right?

    #1828251

    rightwriter
    Participant

    In a way it’s kind of exciting to see how this will all play out…

    #1828254

    klugeryid
    Participant

    I don’t get it. There was a time not so long ago where your eggs were laid in your backyard not bought in some earth killing styrofoam container.
    Milk was delivered from a metal jug and bread had no bag.
    And many survived.
    So let’s ban egg cartons, milk bottles and bread bags.
    Don’t you care for the environment?
    Nitwits

    #1828264

    Abba_S
    Participant

    Reverting to paper bags is more expensive as paper bags will have a higher transportation and storage costs as it’s thicker and bulkier besides sometimes ripping on the way home. Here in NYC most retail stores do not have parking lots and free parking is hard to find and many consumers don’t have cars. All this is doing is encouraging residents to move outside the city.

    The city is requiring developers to provide affordable housing which sounds nice. An Apartment complex in Midwood has over 90 one bedroom Affordable Apartments at $2,300.00 per month with two bedrooms going for $2,800.00. These apartment are assigned by lottery which the government oversees. Which just encourages more residents to move out of the city and increase homelessness as these prices are not really affordable.

    #1828278

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Millhouse
    #1The Paper bags from Trader Joe’s have handles
    #2 For a hundred years or more shoppers in Europe have had to provide their own bags and most used public transit or walked.
    I always carried small net shopping bags when in Europe, cheap, easy to store in a pocket.

    It’s NOT all about you or NYers. The whole world is affected by the plastic mess in oceans, forests, etc

    #1828298

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Why does it have to be banned, why can’t there be a trial stage to see how people will be affected (maybe big supermarkets should have the ban but the little Chinese food restaurants can still use bags) and see what people say
    Once people are used to something it’s very hard to change

    Btw why wouldn’t Amil’s wife make her own account (and just btw I don’t know genders here so I usually call posters he)

    #1828331

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @CoffeAddict
    I can’t answer why she is using his account. She posted that info more than a year ago. I am not sure that he is even alive anymore.

    In our area, takeout food places have switched to paper or collect the 10 cent tax if the consumer wants plastic.

    @bk613
    The plastic bags are NOT sold, a tax is collected if a customer wants one. Therefore SNAP and WIC purchases are exempt because the purchase is paid fro by the state and the state doesn’t pay tax to itself.

    Years ago we were foster parents and the state gave us a card to buy for the child. The purchases of clothing and school supplies were not taxed because the state was the customer, not the foster parent…same with SNAP and WIC

    #1828353

    avreichamshlomo
    Participant

    To quote a rav I heard say recently “in the near future, a man will be walking down a street with a big garbage bag full of dead babies and cocaine, and will get arrested for the garbage bag”

    #1828365

    kollelman
    Participant

    The world isn’t affected by plastic bags. The sensationalized news about plastic in the oceans is due to countries that are acting irresponsibly, but not the US. The stupidity of leftist ideologies like banning plastic straws citing data from a 5th grade science project is just one example. See what rivers in China and India look like. They are the polluters of the world, yet the left wants to penalize the US. Do me a favor.

    #1828367

    jdf007
    Participant

    I lived in a place that banned bags. I moved. The immigrants and urban poor didn’t understand reusables. Stores gave them out for free in week one, and everyone threw them out. All I ever saw was people carrying loads of groceries in their hands. That looked stupid. And because of the spike in disease from unwashed bags, they had to build a new medical school.

    The malls and stores are great too. I like going to large national department stores and listening to the explanation to people that they don’t give out bags. Given how much retail hated people bringing in bags, I wonder how the shoplifting is going.

    Oh, and guess what type of non-chain stores appear to still give out plastic bags anyway, although banned???

    Wonder why online is taking over? Here we are.

    #1828369

    bk613
    Participant

    #1The Paper bags from Trader Joe’s have handles
    True and they very expensive and most stores will likely not offer them to customers for free.

    #2 For a hundred years or more shoppers in Europe have had to provide their own bags and most used public transit or walked.
    I’ve been to several European countries and have always received a bag when shopping..

    I always carried small net shopping bags when in Europe, cheap, easy to store in a pocket.
    Good for you. You should be proud of your Tikkun Olam.

    It’s NOT all about you or NYers. The whole world is affected by the plastic mess in oceans, forests, etc
    True, but why do our concerns need to be totally discarded?

    FYI: According to the NY Times, quoting the Britain’s Environment Agency:
    “You’d have to reuse a paper bag at least three times before its environmental impact equaled that of a high-density polyethylene plastic bag used only once. And if plastic bags were reused repeatedly, they looked even better.”
    “The study found that an avid shopper would have to reuse his or her cotton bag 131 times before it had a smaller global warming impact than a lightweight plastic bag used only once.”

    #1828370

    jdf007
    Participant

    CTLawyer, the plastic in the pacific ocean isn’t from you. The plastic cups in San Francisco doesn’t go there either.

    They have boxes at the stores for something called “recycling”.

    #1828371

    Quayboardwarrior
    Participant

    There is no need to trial it when bans on plastic bags have been implemented successfully all across Europe and people get by fine. Yes, it’s even been brought into law by governments that aren’t leftist (like the UK Conservative party) and no, people aren’t dying of all the germs apparently festering in these reusable bags.

    I think many Jewish people refuse to make changes to help the environment because, (possibly subconsciously) we’re tuned to not worry about tomorrow because Moshiach is coming today.

    #1828385

    DovidBT
    Participant

    Why does it have to be banned, why can’t there be a trial stage to see how people will be affected (maybe big supermarkets should have the ban but the little Chinese food restaurants can still use bags) and see what people say

    That would be really complicated to enforce. A ban that applies to all stores is simple.

    #1828426

    bk613
    Participant

    “The plastic bags are NOT sold, a tax is collected if a customer wants one. Therefore SNAP and WIC purchases are exempt because the purchase is paid fro by the state and the state doesn’t pay tax to itself.”

    The City is calling it a fee not a tax, and according to the NY Post the vendor gets to keep 40% of fees they collect. At the very least SNAP and WIC should be responsible for the vendors portion. In any event, why are the poor absolved of any responsibilities when it comes to protecting the environment?

    #1828422

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    ״That would be really complicated to enforce. A ban that applies to all stores is simple.״

    There already are exceptions

    #1828420

    Amil Zola
    Participant

    When my husband was alive we used his login to read and infrequently post in the CR. After his passing I found his CR logins. Ergo that’s why I use his logins.

    #1828485

    Rebbe Yid
    Participant

    I was just in France and was charged 10 cents for a “non-disposable” plastic bag. I’d be happy to pay that here, a large family shopping trip with 10 bags (larger than the disposable ones) would add a dollar to the final cost.

    #1828483

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    CTLawyer- there are no plastic bags available for a fee. It’s only paper bags available for a fee. Paper bags rip very easily. I do believe in protecting the environment but they should be chasing the discarded fishing nets and encouraging reusing bags and recycling them. Not a ban.

    #1828499

    takahmamash
    Participant

    ” And because of the spike in disease from unwashed bags, they had to build a new medical school.”

    JDF007, you can’t possible expect anyone with at least half a brain to believe this silliness.

    #1828496

    Billywee
    Participant

    Did anyone used to change their cars oil by letting it drain into the storm drain? No-one would do it today. Remember not buckling in kids? Or the person driving carpool smoking?
    Times change. We’ve adjusted to many changes the past few decades. I think we’ll figure out how to survive without plastic bags.

    #1828551

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @Gamanit
    I use the large heavy duty plastic bags with handles sold by Aldi for 10 cents. I get about 20 uses per bag.
    In CT it is the flimsy t-shirt sty;e disposable plastic bags that can not be sold by the stores. Multi use heavy duty bags are available,

    #1828601

    rightwriter
    Participant

    Billywee
    We used to also not have traffic lights why don’t we revert back to those times? Certain things were made in order to speed things up and make lives easier. Going backwards is simply going back to more difficult ways.

    Btw what happened to save the trees?

    #1828620

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    I can’t believe how many people there are on this blog that are okay with this garbage. Don’t you see you or your rights and your liberties are being taken away from you by the feel good socialist liberal Democrats? Something happens in the world and WE get blamed for it? they blame us for everything while they go out and do exactly what they’re telling us they don’t want us to do.

    We really need to have normal people, those of us who really want to maintain our liberties and freedoms to take back New York City and New York State. I don’t want to hear how Connecticut has it and it’s okay over there. If you like it in Connecticut stay there and don’t do anything about it. Let them keep taking stuff from you. You’re never going to get it back, do you understand that? When they take something from you, one of your liberties and your freedoms, you will never ever ever get it back. It doesn’t happen.

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