July 25, 2013 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #610167
It bothers me to no end how a frum family can have a Non Jewish babysitter or nanny spend time with Jewish children without a parent supervision? Why would an ehrliche yid trust their child’s spiritual safety with a goy, day in and day out? I am sure there are countless stories where Yiddishkeit has been jeopardized because of the nanny. Please feel free to share as many stories as possible, maybe people will see the light and cease hiring non Jewish people to take care of their childrenJuly 25, 2013 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #968056yeshivaguy45Participant
There’s a story written in the book A sun and its shield. It happened right before the holocaust, in Hungary. There was a girl who visited her cousins who had a child, a baby. The girl was staying at their house and during the day a babysitter came. One day the babysitter bundled up the baby and told the girl that they were going for a walk. They went on a walk and came to a dark building. They went inside. The girl had no idea what the building was, she was a little girl, but she sensed something wrong and she didn’t like the looks of it and asked the babysitter if they could go home. The babysitter didn’t want to but after pleading and begging the babysitter didn’t want to make a scene, so they went home. That night the girl told the parents, her cousins what had happened. They realized that the babysitter had gone to church and had probably done before with the baby who knows how many times. They told the girl if you see anything else out of the ordinary, then let us know.
This happened many years ago, but it technically could still happen today.
Coming from personal experience, I once had a non jewish babysitter who wasn’t very nice and for some reason, my mother’s necklace was missing after the first day she babysat. After that first day she was fired.July 26, 2013 12:20 am at 12:20 am #968057
If you want your kids to be fluent in Polish or Spanish, go right ahead. This is another casualty of American immigration policies. At least with the Artscroll Shas in Spanish, Lupe the nanny can help Yanky with his homework.July 26, 2013 12:24 am at 12:24 am #968058Torah613TorahParticipant
Prince William of Wales and Duchess Catherine are not hiring a nanny. I think they have the right idea.July 26, 2013 1:43 am at 1:43 am #968059nishtdayngesheftParticipant
The Spanish sitters maybe from Zera Yisroel, the children of anusim.
I don’t understand why you are so cynical.July 26, 2013 2:08 am at 2:08 am #968060
I do believe that statistically, there is a good percentage of Hispanics, Poles, and Italians with Jewish ancestry.
Still, though, I think having your kids raised by gentile women is a bad idea. A better idea is to have kids that you can take care of; if you cannot properly take care of your kids, have 3 or 4 instead of 9 or 10.July 26, 2013 7:00 am at 7:00 am #968061
There is no reason to discriminate against foreign-born nannies who speak good English.
Furthermore, those who take care of children professionally understand that they are being paid to raise the children according to the rules of the household. The only issue is that you may not want to let them prepare food, because they could treif up the kitchen. Otherwise, I don’t see the problem.
In families that have two full-time breadwinners, some sort of childcare is a necessity, and not everyone is lucky enough to have healthy parents living nearby who can babysit the grandchildren. It’s not a matter of how many children you have, it’s just that a full-time work schedule doesn’t always sync with school schedules (plus, what do you do before they start school?)July 26, 2013 8:01 am at 8:01 am #968062ToiParticipant
you mean, besides halachic shailos?July 26, 2013 8:25 am at 8:25 am #968063
“I am sure there are countless stories where Yiddishkeit has been jeopardized because of the nanny”
Well if git mishege is sure I guess frum people should just quit their jobs and hope for the bestJuly 26, 2013 10:44 am at 10:44 am #968064
ubiquitin, firstly I never suggested anyone quit their job. Secondly, there are alternatives to Non Jewish babysitters, plenty of alternatives. Thirdly, in your mind, a job is more important than a chinuch of a child, speaks volumes about your mindsetJuly 26, 2013 11:30 am at 11:30 am #968065nfgo3Member
Re rebdoniel’s first post: Do you really mean to imply that US immigration law is supposed to protect Americans from Spanish and Polish nannies? That is as unsound as the view that US immigration law should protect Christians from the spread of Halachah and the appearance of hechshers on packaged foods.July 26, 2013 11:33 am at 11:33 am #968066mazaltovMember
Please get Jewish nannies and babysitters. Your child is worth more than a million dollars. Will you honestly give a million dollars to a non Jewish person to keep safely for you???July 26, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #968067Sam2Participant
Torah: Of course. She is raising the royal baby the way a Jewish mother should. 🙂July 26, 2013 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #968068heretohelpMember
If it bothers you so much why don’t you volunteer to take care of the kids you see being cared for this way. Alternatively, you could just give the family the salary that it earns from working and thus needing childcare. Then the mother could stay home.July 26, 2013 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #968069
1&2) not always for many it is non-jewish babysitter vs job (To be clear not for me)
3) If you had real stories or even one as anecdoatal and silly as it may be to genaralize based on it, you would have a point (though you would still be wrong.)To generalize based on what you “are sure of” is beyond absurd and speaks volumes about the understatement that is your name.July 26, 2013 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #968070
1&2) not always for many it is non-jewish babysitter vs job (To be clear not for me)
3) If you had real stories or even one as anecdoatal and silly as it may be to genaralize based on it, you would have a point (though you would still be wrong.)To generalize based on what you “are sure of” is beyond absurd and speaks volumes about the understatement that is your name.July 26, 2013 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #968071
I am thankful that Hashem gives me the opportunity (and strength) to watch my baby grandson half-days while my daughter works as an OT. I get to spend quality time with him every day, and she is able to be with him for the rest of the day. It’s a really great arrangement, and my yingeleh gets to “daven” with me, and already recognizes when I sing Modeh Ani and Torah Torah to him. He quiets down when I say Shma. This, you cannot get from a non-Jewish babysitter. It really is a pity that so many small and impressionable frum children are not being exposed to what their own mommies would be doing with them, simply because the caregiver is incapable of Yiddishe taam.July 26, 2013 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #968072Nigritude UltramarineMember
I second what heretohelp said. Pretty simple.July 26, 2013 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #968073
The OP is correct. Based on Shulchan Oruch E”H 22:4 one is not even permitted to give a child to a non-jew even to teach him a profession [reasons: chashad of killing, teaching meenus, a.o.] – never mind having the non-jew take care of the child all day.
On a related issue, if the care is done in the Jew’s house, the keilim might need tevila [and perhaps even kashering].
jewishfeminist02 – we live by halacho, and not ‘our feelings.’July 26, 2013 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #968074mazaltovMember
There are so many Jewish Ladies/ girls who would do babysitting. It may cost a bit more but is it not worth the peace of mind??July 26, 2013 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #968075
American immigration law is supposed to keep illegal immigrants out of the workforce, where they offer cheap labor, such as domestics, baby nurses, short order cooks, day laborers, pool boys, etc. Due to the cheap labor our failure to enforce the law creates, Jews now generally don’t hire other Jews, since Jews generally are in this country legally. Why pay Tzippi a minimum wage to watch your kids, when you can pay Lupe $5 an hour? Why pay Moishe to make bourekas for minimum wage at a kosher pizza place when Juan will do the same for $4 an hour?
What Oomis described is beautiful. To have a rebbetzin of bubbe age look after your child, feed them kosher home cooking, give them a sense of varmkeit, teach them tefillos and zemiros, etc. is precious.July 26, 2013 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #968076gavra_at_workParticipant
As with all Halachic questions, ask your LOR.July 26, 2013 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #968077
Where did I mention “feelings”?
I too live according to halacha. But I don’t understand your source– it would seem to prohibit any sort of education from a non-Jewish teacher, yet many, many frum families send their children to some sort of college or graduate program not run by Jews. Even day schools frequently employ non-Jewish teachers for secular subjects. (Not to mention that I am sure a posek would allow the child care for the sake of parnassah, if a Jewish provider were unavailable or would charge significantly more money).
I will ask my husband about it when he gets home.July 26, 2013 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #968078chgoachdusMember
The truth is that many people work because they don’t want to be home with the kids. If you do the math, many (not all) jobs don’t even pay enough to cover the various things that are purchased because both parents are working. To be honest add up ALL the expenses … childcare, cleaning help, yard work, nicer wardrobe, 2nd car, snow removal, convenience foods/meals … that can be done or avoided by a stay-at-home parent. It takes a nice paycheck to justify working economically AND that’s even without considering the effect on kids, which should be the first consideration.July 26, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #968079
jewishfeminist02 – a college is not a one-on-one situation; and there we are speaking of adults.
We’re speaking of one non-jew taking care of a child [or children] – that’s not the same as an adult in college.July 26, 2013 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #968080
What Oomis described is beautiful. To have a rebbetzin of bubbe age look after your child, feed them kosher home cooking, give them a sense of varmkeit, teach them tefillos and zemiros, etc. is precious. “
You are kind, but I am no rebbetzin. Thanks though, for the upgrade for this Bubby.July 26, 2013 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #968081
“jewishfeminist02 – a college is not a one-on-one situation; and there we are speaking of adults.
We’re speaking of one non-jew taking care of a child [or children] – that’s not the same as an adult in college.”
I also mentioned non-Jewish teachers in day schools (and actually, Bais Yaakov of Baltimore has their high school girls take courses at community college). But fine. So according to your opinion, one should also not hire a non-Jewish math tutor?July 26, 2013 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #968082
heretohelp, sarcasm won’t solve the problem. For the record, my neighbor had a nanny that fed the children treif. My sister has a friend that had a nanny that was watching the kids on rosh Hashana while the parents were davening and put on a dvd to keep them occupied. Those 2 stories come to my mind and I am sure there are plenty others. An alternative to hiring non Jewish nannys is to either send a child to a Jewish day care, there are plenty or to find a Jewish one. The excuse that a job over powers chinuch of a child is ludicrous. I assume you would also agree with the people 70 years ago that were of the opinion that their job was more important than Shabbos. Chinuch of a child is detrimental to their lives. If the child is under supervision of a shiksa longer than the parents, that is cause for real concern. i have pity on you that you fail to see the importance.July 26, 2013 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #968083
chgoachdus made a valid point that I have been feeling for a long time. Many women who go out to the workforce and pay for a caregiver, are earning so little when the scales are balanced, that it hardly seems worth leaving the baby for what they net at the end of the day. Often (and I know this to be fact), the women simply do not want to be at home with a child all day. I find that very sad, that we have come to a place intellectually and emotionally, where caring for your OWN baby is boring, a burden, unstimulating, unfulfilling, WHATEVER negative you want to attach.
I recognize, however, that despite my own personal feelings on the subject, that we always must deal with what IS and not what we would love to see be the case. My children’s generation has grown up with a very different mindset from my own, and not in any small measure due to the exhorbitant expenses attendant in living a reasonable life as a frum person. Yeshivah tuition, kosher food (especially for Shabbos and Yom Tov), etc. are ALL very high cost, and paying for these things comes WITH a high cost as well.
But if the money being earned is merely coming into one end of the wallet and going out the other to the (non-Jewish) babysitter, then at what cost are women leaving their children for the bulk of the day, when they really are benefitting only marginally financially? (Not talking about women who MUST work outside because their husband’s income doesn’t cover expenses at all).July 26, 2013 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #968084
jewishfeminist02 – “So according to your opinion” – what I am saying that one needs to look at Halacha, it’s not my opinion.
Halacha makes a difference between adult and child and between one-and-one and where are others are present. This halacha is brought in Shulchan Oruch under Hilchos Yichud.July 26, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #968085
“For the record, my neighbor had a nanny that fed the children treif. My sister has a friend that had a nanny that was watching the kids on rosh Hashana while the parents were davening and put on a dvd to keep them occupied. Those 2 stories come to my mind and I am sure there are plenty others.”
Everyone has nanny horror stories. I’m sure there are frum nannies who forget to feed the kids, or leave a huge mess, or snoop, or steal, or put the kids in front of the TV all day while they do their nails, etc etc. There are probably also people who are not Jewish who pretend to be frum, or people from frum families who are secretly off the derech, or whatever.
Bottom line: don’t entrust your children to just anyone. Check references and go through a “trial run” while you or your spouse is at home. There are definitely reasons not to use a non-Jewish nanny, but this is not one of them.July 26, 2013 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #968086heretohelpMember
Git Meshige- your neighbor whose children were fed treif by the nanny- did you offer to watch the kids? If Jewish day care is such an easy option, why don’t you point people in the right direction? Not everyone is as lucky as you. Try to help them.
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