Non-Jewish Music

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  • #953617
    jbaldy22
    Member

    @batseven

    listening to jewish music is very bidieved because after the beis hamikdash it became assur to have music due to the fact that we are supposed to be mourning for the churban. I have heard myself from poskim that optimally one should not listen to Jewish music. As Sam2 said you will be hard pressed to find clear mekoros about non-jewish music (and no shirei agavim is not referring to stam non-jewish music). So interestingly enough there is more of a mekor to assur jewish music than non-jewish music. That being said I am not suggesting that one should start listening to non-jewish music.

    #953618
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Jbaldy, why and how is non-Jewish music less problematic regarding aveilus for the churban?

    #953619
    Brony
    Participant

    lol @ “the climb”

    you must be joking.

    #953620
    thegra
    Member

    Perhaps people do not know the history of acher. He went off the derech in part because he listened to non-Jewish Greek music when he was in yeshiva.

    #953621
    writersoul
    Member

    WIY: “Btw I have noticed that every kid that goes off the derech usually starts with music.”

    The “I have noticed” cancels out the “every.” Actually, so does the “usually.”

    I think that everyone who makes blanket statements is just a naturally rude person.

    …yeah.

    Anyway, according to HaKatan’s logic, we wouldn’t be able to listen to classical music. Or romantic, which I happen to love also, and which probably doesn’t mean what you think it means. Or baroque, which is also cool (gotta love Four Seasons).

    Da da da dummm…. da da da DUMMM…

    You guys all recognized that? It’s the expression of a treife goy’s soul!

    #953622
    WIY
    Member

    Writersoul

    The truth often insults somebody usually it insults a lot of people. I personally witnessed someone go down hill and off the derech due to rap music. We worked together one summer and there were points where the guy would just sit in bed all day listening to the same cd again and again and again. I visibly saw that the music was killing him. It made him so depressed and so low. His language became filthy his interest in Judaism went down to zilch. I can also speak for myself when I used to listen to non Jewish music it brought me down big time. It is very distructive. Go ahead be insulted I don’t care.

    #953623
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Wow this post has only been up for like 2 days and look how many people posted! Its like we’ve never had a topic like this before!

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    #953624
    writersoul
    Member

    WIY:

    Two points:

    1) It is quite possible that you know someone who went off the derech because of rap music. However, anecdotal evidence does not translate to “every.”

    2) It sounds like your experience was really painful, and I have no idea how close you were to this person, but you have NO WAY of knowing what caused his pain. ANYTHING could have been happening in the background. I have friends who listen to rap who are NOT like how you describe- the sight of a million white sheep doesn’t prove that sheep are only white, but the sight of one black sheep will immediately disprove the hypothesis. You could easily be right, that rap music brought him down, but a) it may not be so simple, and b) that doesn’t mean that rap brings EVERYONE down or that everyone who goes down did so because he/she listened to rap.

    In fact, I’ve known of people who were driven down by an external factor and began to listen to rap music (which I hate, BTW, and which I think is quite poisonous) or other “rebellious” music if only because it was rebellious, as a manifestation of rebellion.

    Actually, a third point:

    3) I wasn’t trying to insult you above. Look at what I said and you’ll figure out why I said it. (You may have already, but I just wanted to make it clear that I’m NOT trying to be cruel in any way, just trying to make a point.)

    #953625
    jbaldy22
    Member

    @DY

    I have to go back through the sugya I do recall some sevaras to be mechalek between them but I would prefer to come back to you with actual sources. Non-jewish music is seldom discussed in teshuvos probably because the only way to hear it back then was in concerts which would have been assur any ways because of chukas hagoyim amongst other reasons. As this shaila has no practical outcome at all I didn’t really focus all that much on it at the time. The interesting thing is that the heter to listen to jewish music nowadays came from the fact that rabbonim hated the fact that everyone was listening to non-Jewish music so they were accepting of people coming up with a more kosher alternative even though it is on somewhat shaky halachic grounds. Kind of an eis laasos sort of sevara.

    #953626
    The little I know
    Participant

    Much of today’s “Jewish” music is a serious problem. If not expressly lifted from goyishe sources, with words from Tehilim or Tefilo pasted on, many songs composed from scratch are completely lacking “Yiddishe taam”. Our simchos are polluted with such melodies, and it is common to find many people plainly offended by the noise. It would be nice if some of the musicians would pledge to refrain from playing all of that junk, and get a hechsher that attests to it. Then rabbonim and roshei yeshivos should pledge to reject offers of sidur kidushin or other kibudim, even appearing at the chasunos, if the musician lacks a hechsher. That might just make a dent.

    #953627
    jbaldy22
    Member

    @TLIK

    there is no halachic source or precedence for assuring such music and getting involved in such things will become extremely arbitrary as the pilfering of non-jewish intros and usage of techniques learned from non-jewish influences have become extremely widespread. To my knowledge the only artist who doesn’t is Avraham Fried. This would also be extremely counterproductive as the whole point of having jewish music is so that people won’t listen to non-jewish as music is inherently assur.

    #953628
    lesschumras
    Participant

    All Jewish music, going back centuries, has been lifted from goyim. Ever wonder why eastern European Jewish music sounds like their polish and Russian counterparts, as do my brother in law’s music ( he’s Iraqi) sounds Arabic and my Bukharin friends music sounds Bukharin.

    #953630
    danish123
    Member

    I personally stopped listening to english music last week. At first, I was on a high- but now, as the high wears off, Im just dying for this music. This weekend I was with friends who do listen to english music and although I told them a few times that I dont listen, they were blasting the radio etc. and it was extremely hard for me. I spent a week (ok so it doesnt sound so impressive but anyone who listens to music knows that thats a long time) deleting these songs from my head and now, after a weekend…theyre right back in. Its upsetting but I feel like if youre doing this and youre friends arent, you gotta be real strong and ready to stand up for yourself. And if ppl dont respect your “no listening” then you cant control them. Ppl will still play but you need to try to block it out or at least don’t get hana’ah out of it. Like the radio was playing and I knew most of the songs but even when my favorites came up, I wouldnt let myself sing along because then already I was enjoying it. Not sure if that speil made any sense whatsoever:)

    #953631
    Brony
    Participant

    i’ve heard the crazy train intro for people who have never heard of, let alone listen to, ozzie osborne. also, that lady gaga bad romance chasidish band video had me on the floor. i believe the operative word here is “pumping.”

    also, i never got why yeshiva guys who start listening to goyish music always listen to the most inane types – usually teen pop or terrible rap. there’s gotta be some plausible theory.

    #953632
    kkls45
    Member

    danish123,

    ya, I totally hear u and u def made sense. it just sounds like ur trying really hard to do the right thing, and that little yetzer hara inside u is getting real mad because you’ve succeeded for a week already. no, ur never gonna b able to avoid it completely, cuz we don’t live in that sheltered perfect world, but our job is just to try our best. God doent expect any more then that and Hes very proud of the effort ur putting in. Those friends don’t sound to sensitive rite now, and it cud b bc they subconsciously feel guilty that they arnt a strong as u r or it can just be bc they don’t realize how important this is to u. wtvr their reason is, don’t let them bring u back down. its hard now, but it will get easier. and just don’t stop forgetting how much Hashem loves u and how proud u r making Him up there!

    #953633
    HaKatan
    Participant

    Sam2, I don’t recall the sources now (and I’ll try to find out where that idea comes from), but I assure you (FWIW) that I did not make that up. To the best of my knowledge, music is an expression of the soul. I didn’t say people intentionally put their soul into it, but that is what music is.

    Also, ask people who know music well (not people who just listen to music) if they can determine anything about a Jewish singer from their music.

    I don’t know why, but I think that Classical music may not a problem in this regard, but I am not sure. (Yanni or other New Age IS still a problem.)

    Regardless of this admittedly more esoteric reason, you should not listen to non-Jewish music because of its more easily understood influences, subtle (or not so), though, those influences may be.

    #953634
    danish123
    Member

    Kkls45: ua thanks. But now that the inspiration has doed down a bit, i do find that im doubting myself bwcause i feel like maybe i did take upon myself something way too big. I mean i still listen to inspirational/ completely non-romance songs but in comparison to what i ised to listen to, its nothing. I think that i may have bitten something too big to chew. I also think that i just said that line wrong.

    #953635
    batseven
    Participant

    danish123:

    Kol Hakoved on your desire to do the right thing, no matter how hard!

    I know how hard it is because I stopped also and it was very, very hard.

    All I can say is that it does get easier. Keep being strong and in a couple of weeks u will hopefully see your desire getting less and less.

    Hatzlacha!

    #953636
    kkls45
    Member

    Danish123, I don’t know u personally, so I cant tell u what u are able to do. Only u know yourself well enough to make those decisions. However, I do think that you sound like a pretty strong girl, and hopefully u will make the right decisions for yourself. If you are realizing that this is hard for you, an have already tried to stop, this is probably a test that God is giving u – and He doesn’t give anyone tests that they cannot handle and pass. You can do it! I’m rooting for u!

    Also, about your inspiration dyeing down, there is a 5min video on torahanytime dot com by Charlie Harary called “The Secret of Inspiration.” Hes a great speaker I really recommend that you watch it.

    #953637
    writersoul
    Member

    HaKatan: Why would classical music not be a problem? Listen to that and tell me with a straight face that there’s no expression of the soul…

    #953638
    ezer15
    Member

    i heard an interesting way to determine what is jewish muisic and whats not(includes shweky ect.) when you listen to it do you want to wiggle or dance

    #953639
    HaKatan
    Participant

    writersoul, I agree with you that one could argue that classical is no different. But my understanding is that classical music is different.

    I’m obviously not trying to be mattir anything that may be assur, so nobody should take this as halacha liMaaseh.

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