December 16, 2014 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #614478👑RebYidd23Participant
Maybe they are all evil. Maybe they are the root of all evil. But they are not all the same.December 16, 2014 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #1049215
So, they aren’t all different either.
The problem is definitional. I generally don’t define the ones I agree with as feminist. I define them as normal people. It’s the ideologies I don’t agree with that I call feminist.
I once met a lady who told me she was feminist. So I asked, in what way? She says, like I believe in equal pay for women. I said, so does everyone–that’s just normal. (FTR: there is equal pay)December 16, 2014 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #1049216DikDukDuckParticipant
The way I understand it, the feminists of olde wanted civil rights that were deprived from them for being women, due to something known as gender discrimination, and they got them.
I believe the feminists of now want civil superiority over men which is gender discrimination, and evil. The word feminist is now an evil word as it has been tainted with evil.December 16, 2014 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1049217CuriosityParticipant
Your post really made me think about my position and realize that I agree with you 100%, and that made me think even more, and then I realized how much that speaks about feminists’ failure to promote real feminism.
They’ve taken a philosophy that is essentially, at its root, an acceptable and good cause, and stigmatized it as something that is offensive, crude, obnoxious, outrageous, and discriminatory against men. Ironic, is it not, that we now define feminism as all which is abnormal?December 17, 2014 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1049220
Popa, I have a similar problem – I only disagree with true Scotsmen.December 17, 2014 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #1049221
DikDukDuck, if you can quote a single statement by a self-defined,
feminist-community-accepted person that supports your idea of
modern feminism, I’ll be a… I’ll be, uh… I’ll be very surprised!December 19, 2014 12:52 am at 12:52 am #1049222my own kind of jewParticipant
For the record, every single self-proclaimed “feminist” I have ever spoken too (and I’m friends with quite a few) has always said that feminism is about males and females having the same rights, respect, and potential.
The problem is while it might be true to say that (at least in the U.S.) INSTITUTIONALIZED sexism has been all but eliminated, in practice that is not necessarily the case.December 19, 2014 2:25 am at 2:25 am #1049223yytzParticipant
Feminism is just a word, which people can define however they want.
There are hijab-wearing Muslim feminists (who just want to change some unnecessary restrictions based on custom but still follow traditional Islamic law), there are Jewish feminists who are doing the same thing (some call themselves feminists, some don’t), and there are (mainly non-Orthodox) Jewish feminists who want to get rid of halacha whenever it offends them.
And there are traditional religious women who work toward improving the lot of women (more careers, education, happiness, community engagement, etc.) without calling themselves feminists. There are also even traditional religous women who are 100% for the status quo without any changes, who claim to be feminists too. It all depends on their preference and community norms.
People shouldn’t use vague words to critique people. What if Sarah Schneier had been shouted down by people calling her a feminist for wanting to educate girls? If you have a problem with what someone is doing, criticize what they’re doing substantively, not by name calling.
Popa, there is not equal pay. There is a real gender pay gap. Not in every single job, but on average.December 19, 2014 3:12 am at 3:12 am #1049224
Popa, there is not equal pay. There is a real gender pay gap. Not in every single job, but on average.
Amazing. So then all you need to do is assume that men and women are equally distributed among high and low paying professions, and there you have a proven disparity!December 19, 2014 4:15 am at 4:15 am #1049225
I think there are actual feminists who don’t believe in a wage gap either.December 19, 2014 4:16 am at 4:16 am #1049226☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
So popa, you’re against the North American Salary Initiative, because you think wage gap is a myth?December 19, 2014 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #1049227
I think there are actual feminists who don’t believe in a wage gap either.
maybe they aren’t actual feminists then; they’re just normal.December 19, 2014 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1049228
Feminism is just a word, which people can define however they want.
No it isn’t. It is a word, and has a meaning. Just like other words.
You shouldn’t use words to define yourself if you don’t want to be associated with their normal meaning.December 19, 2014 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1049229yytzParticipant
There is not one “normal” meaning, but a number of meanings that people use. People need to understand that when using the term, and interpreting its use among other people.
A gender wage gap exists, even for the same exact jobs. One study estimates that women doing the exact same work as men (same job, same hours) get 90% of the salary. May not seem like much but it adds up to a lot.December 19, 2014 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1049230👑RebYidd23Participant
I am starting a project to change the meaning of an ordinary word that I do not like.mDecember 20, 2014 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1049231
A gender wage gap exists, even for the same exact jobs. One study estimates that women doing the exact same work as men (same job, same hours) get 90% of the salary. May not seem like much but it adds up to a lot.
I see. One study. You’d think that in all the studying that has been done on this topic, you would be able to cite more than one study.
How about you post the name of that study, and I’ll tell you all the problems with it.
But I’ll start by noting that you say “same job, same hours.” Ok, how about same education and experience?
And what defines “same job”?
And what does same hours mean? Are we talking about jobs where you punch the clock out at 5PM, or about jobs where people put in extra time even if they have the “same hours”?
And are we talking about commission based jobs?
Sorry, I ain’t buying it. If women were being systematically underpaid, some bright dude would hire up all the talent at a regular salary instead of paying it to men who are less talented. In my job–the women are paid precisely the same amount as the men, even though they work less (take off longer for having babies). In your job are women paid less?
And in all events, that 90% number you’re quoting is much higher than the 83 or whatever that the feminists usually quote. So there’s already a lie going on.
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