November 11, 2013 3:04 am at 3:04 am #611240
does it make sense for a guy to not start dating if his only issue is parnassah? in other words in all other aspects of his life he’s ready to date but hes still in college and doesnt have a job yet, so the money is lacking.November 11, 2013 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #986522rebdonielMember
I’d suggest not starting until you’re in a position to marry, financially, that is. Since we don’t casually date, but date with marriage in mind, it may only lead to disappointment and heartbreak if you date before you can afford married life.November 11, 2013 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #986523gigglerMember
rd, so poor people should never marry?
You marry and let Hashem do his side of the bargain.
Besides, mavmav is already set to have a parnassa once he finishes school. Definitely he should marry right away.November 11, 2013 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #986524miritchkaMember
If the girls side is notified that he has no parnassah at this time but is in school, its usually not a problem. Most girls too are in school and/or working. The lucky few can even get support from their parents for a set amount of time. In any case, as long as the girls side is notified, there shouldn’t be an issue.November 11, 2013 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #986525RedlegParticipant
The answer from Chazal is, Yes. He should wait until he has a parnassa before he gets married.November 11, 2013 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #986526
i spoke to a rav who said to get married, i asked him about parnassah and he said to trust that Hashem will take care of it…. But i dont have that kind of bitachonNovember 11, 2013 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #986527
You cant survive without money and you probably dont intend to collect in shul so if your parents or her parents or the combination can’t support you, you will be in big trouble. Betachon can only work when you have a conceivable plan of making parnassa. I really wish these Rabbonim who would never keep their own advice would stop advising people. You aren’t Reb Zusha Mihanipoli who could just say Zusha is hungry and Hashem would make a neis and food would show up. If your wife has no job and your parents cant support you have no right to get married.November 11, 2013 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #986528rebdonielMember
G-d helps those who help themselves.
You have to do your hishtadlus.
The Gemara in Avodah Zarah says that he who works erev shabbos, eats on yom shabbos. You have to have faith, but you also have to be logical and do your duty.
Having a career should be seen as a reasonable prerequisite for marriage.November 11, 2013 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #986529Torah613TorahParticipant
Date rich girls until you get a parnasa.November 11, 2013 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #986530gavra_at_workParticipant
i spoke to a rav who said to get married, i asked him about parnassah and he said to trust that Hashem will take care of it…. But i dont have that kind of bitachon
Please ask that Rav that just in case, is the Rav also willing to have Bitachon and put in writing that he will be personally responsible for your support in case you are unable to find a job?
Typical being Machmir with others’ gelt.
How do you support yourself now?November 11, 2013 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #986531🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
WIY- he can have bitachon that there will be a girl that already has a job that will be interested in marrying him. That’s not too far-fetched.November 11, 2013 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #986532VogueMember
That is why I am going for pharmacy tech and taking a quick detour from school with the goal of eventually getting an MBA in business management. Hopefully, by doing this, I will be able to make a decent amount of money to support myself and a future husband in school. Depending on what your majoring in and how far you are in school, maybe consider taking a similar detour. If you go through certain schools you can still get credit while taking the detour. In my case I will be getting seven credits and since I placed out of a bunch of prerequisites that means I am using elective credits which I will need plenty of because I need more to graduate than most people at my current school, which I am hoping to eventually go back to.November 11, 2013 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #986533
you didn’t say you found a girl and are planning to set a date davka before graduation. You asked if it is okay to date. Absolutely. You have no idea when you will finally meet that person or how many people you need to date before meeting them. You don’t know if they may have a job or savings that will last until graduation, or you can meet them and marry close to graduation. Your parnassah is decided yearly by Hashem, not by the want ads. Starting a process is just that, starting a process. Don’t be swayed by those who live by logic.November 11, 2013 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #986534littlemookieMember
Is he graduating college soon? I don’t think a lack of money is a reason not to date, but I know from personal experience that dating can be expensive. If the only reason to not date is lack of money, then he should start dating.November 11, 2013 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #986535LevAryehMember
The Rambam in De’os 5:11 paskens
??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???
The way of wise ones is for a man to establish a work which provides for him first; then purchase a dwelling house; then espouse a woman.November 11, 2013 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #986536
But I dont know if he is paskening that he must do so. It could be that it is mutar to marry first even if foolish…November 11, 2013 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #986537
nobody follows that anymore…… I would say the norm nowadays is the exact opposite!November 11, 2013 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #986538🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
LAB- it also says ben shmone esre l’chuppah. Can you have a job and a house before 18 these days?November 11, 2013 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #986539
Today it would mean a job and afford to pay rent. Not so much to ask for. In his times a small simple house didn’t cost much and I don’t know how common it was to rent.November 11, 2013 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #986540adam3Participant
I have a few friends that recently got married with no job. Now it is a few weeks after marriage and they are STILL looking for jobs. They have no money for rent, gas, phone bills, etc. Not everyone can get a rich shver to mooch off. Be realistic and plan ahead.November 11, 2013 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #986541
I know two people who got married and they both had good jobs. Now she has a bad job and he has no job and they have no money for rent, gas, phone bills etc. Too bad God forgot to check their plans.November 12, 2013 12:18 am at 12:18 am #986542funnyboneParticipant
How far off is your graduation? For how long would you date? Can you work p/t while in college? How well to do are your parents and would they support? It’s unfair to give the rabbi a bad rap when you haven’t filled us in on the details.November 12, 2013 12:34 am at 12:34 am #986543Anonymous1000Participant
You seemed to have answered your own question. You said you don’t have emuna that Hashem will provide you with parnassa if you were to get married now and you asked a rav and did not follow his guidance. Maybe you could learn more about the subject of emuna and hishtadlus as your views seem to contradict das Torah. Also it’s very important to have a rav who knows you well. More importantly you must trust him otherwise he is not your rav.November 12, 2013 12:37 am at 12:37 am #986544Veltz MeshugenerMember
Syag, no one debates whether every single person in the history of the world ever suffered as a result of forces outside their control. What people are saying is that people ought, within reason, to control things to the extent they can, so as to maximize their chances of success.November 12, 2013 2:21 am at 2:21 am #986545mewhoParticipant
if the parents of the guy and girls are PHD (papa has dough) then they can date, but otherwise they should wait till someone there can afford to pay the billsNovember 12, 2013 3:09 am at 3:09 am #986546
VM – yes, that is what some people are saying. My comment was geared more toward the others.November 12, 2013 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #986547LevAryehMember
Gamanit – Good point. I’ll write an angry letter to the Rambam explaining to him that he’s wrong.November 12, 2013 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #986548RedlegParticipant
WIY, LAB’s RAMBAM quote might not be a psak, but it certainly is dais torah.
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