NYC and Lakewood Taxation

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  • #617391
    ymosko
    Member

    Hi everyone,

    Does anyone, by any chance, have any idea know what percent of the NYC educational budget go to special education, mandated services and any other service from which Jewish schools in the city benefit from?

    In the same vain, what percent of the town of lakewoods budget for public education goes to special education, mandated services and any other service from which Jewish schools in the township benefit from?’

    Thank you for your help.

    #1141639
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Why do you care?

    #1141640
    Joseph
    Participant

    Why are you so cynical on just about every topic you post to, apy?

    #1141641
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Au contraire, I think he suspects the OP of cynicism.

    #1141642
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You cannot compare the 2. NYC is the largest school district in the country and can handle the special ed. Lakewood is much smaller and therefore its alarger percentage of the budget

    #1141643
    charliehall
    Participant

    You can find detailed information regarding New York City’s budget online.

    zahavasdad is correct in that comparisons would be unfair. There are huge administrative economies of scale and one reason property taxes are low in NYC (at least for owner-occupied residential property) are that the per pupil expenditures here are much lower than in small inefficient suburban districts. But people in NY and NJ prefer to continue paying taxes that are so high as to be nearly confiscatory than to consolidate school districts.

    #1141644
    apushatayid
    Participant

    THANK you dy. It isn’t cynicism just the negative comments about the frum populations of both cities he is soliciting.

    As has been pointed out by another response. The information is available from the appropriate city governments and if the op wanted the answer be would have asked them.

    #1141645
    Abba_S
    Participant

    NYC has an income tax unlike Lakewood. It also has Wall Street and more commercial buildings than Lakewood has residents, which are a big sources of tax revenue.

    Also, In Lakewood Frum Jews are in the majority as opposed to NYC. So the ratio of Jewish students to public school students are different, 3 to 4 yeshiva students to 1 public school student in Lakewood. While in NYC it’s about 10 public school students for every private school student.

    Also NYC has mass transit which many students both public and private use instead of school busing. NYC has sidewalks, crossing guards and traffic lights at busy intersections unlike Lakewood , this reduces the need for school busing,

    #1141646
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    NYC has a property tax too, the differnce is NYC has a larger tax base than Lakewood or Monsey. There is not as much commercial real estate and businesses in Monsey or Lakewood like there is in NYC

    #1141647
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Charlie,

    Lovely dissertation, especially when you don’t let the facts get in the way.

    The NYC DOE budget for 2015-16 is just about $27 Billion. For just over a million students. Average costs appears to me, not a professor, to be substantially higher than Lakewood.

    Further, more than half the operating budget is borne by State and Federal funding. Which is a higher percentage than either of the “suburban” districts referenced to.

    But hey, facts are just facts, no reason to let them get in the way of a discussion.

    #1141648
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    The biggest differences are the NYC income tax and the additional state and Federal aid received by NYC DOE.

    And the costs of special Ed in NYC are not lower than the other districts. I have seen what they pay contractors.

    #1141649
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    NYC spends less per child (Regular children) than almost any other district in the state

    NYC spends about $7500 per child (non special ed) , Most NYC special Ed children are educated in the NYC public schools so they can merge those costs in and still pay less money than other districts in the state.

    The amount of frum parents who seek re-imbursement is lower than outside the city as Bloomberg started to fight the cases and regardless of his statements, He has acted differnetly DiBlasio has maintained that policy so you have to fight hard against a school district that is opposed to jewish education in a secular school board (Unlike say East Ramapo)

    #1141650
    Joseph
    Participant

    Actually de Blasio has significantly loosened up and NYC has become significantly more agreeable and accommodating to third-party (non-BOE) providers for special ed services over the last year or two and they’ve been approving non-public school providers.

    #1141651
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ZD,

    Where do you get that number from? It is not at all borne out by the audited financials of the NYC DOE.

    I suspect that the number you are reporting does not include the NYS and federal portion, nor does it include the pension and capital provisions, all of which the City likes to report separately

    #1141652
    ymosko
    Member

    @AP, I am not trying to troll. I am actually a grad student trying to research these two areas and try to access what percentage of the funds in relation to the Jewish population go to services from which our school benefit.

    Just to put matters into perspective for you, In Lakewood the school budget is around 150 Million, in NYC is 24 Billion. In Lakewood the Jewish students outnumber the gentile students 4 to 1 (25,000 non-public 2950 Public).

    However, I have a dealine, and was not able to get the percentages, regarding the cost of Jewish student for each student.

    Perhaps you have some information….

    #1141653
    ymosko
    Member

    @ Zehava,

    I have access to many sources. So far Iv’e reached out to several superintendents in districts in NYC which have heavy Jewish populations, unfortunately, they do not have ounce of a clue regarding the average AIE (Actual Individual Expense) Per Jewish Students.

    In Lakewood we know that for busing alone its around 20 million (everything can be cited, Iv’e already written three papers on the subject)

    I recently compared Lakewood to the five towns where Jewish population is surging. And while the ditsrict is much smaller in comparison to Lakewood, non-public out number public 2.5 to 1

    #1141654
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Busing isnt an issue in NYC because almost nobody gets it.

    Also NYC is not as concerened about jewish special Ed as parents on the upper east and Upper West side of Manhattan who hire High priced lawyers and get the city to pay $75,000 or more private school tutions. They use alot of their resources to fight those people as they cost the city alot of money

    #1141655
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    ymosko,

    Frankly, research by posting a question such as this in the CR is not research that should gain you a graduate degree.

    Certainly when all you are looking for can be accessed by doing a search for the actual sources reporting the information.

    I doubt there is any way at al you can get the AIE for “Jewish” students in either place.

    Busing is for all students, not just Yeshiva students.

    Further, 25,000 to 2,590 does not calculate to 4 to 1, ratio. Something is very wrong with your numbers.

    #1141656
    Joseph
    Participant

    ZD: Tens of thousands of Orthodox Jewish children are bused to Yeshiva by the NYC Board of Ed.

    #1141657
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Most of the Bused students in NYC are bused via private busing. Read the side of the bus

    Elementary Students will get busing if they live a certain distance from the school, High school students for the most part do NOT get busing

    #1141658
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The percentage of children’s busing which is paid by the BOE is printed on the side of buses?

    #1141659
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “Most of the Bused students in NYC are bused via private busing. Read the side of the bus”

    Which are contracted by the DOE.

    Look at most of the buses in Lakewood or in East RAMAPO, they too have private names on them. But they are contracted by the local districts.

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