November 9, 2016 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #618648
Why is it bad? from what i hear most Yeshiva people say, it helps pay a big percentage of their health insurance charges-Which if shut down they will need to pay in full each month-from my knowledge obamacare should only be bad for the rich cause the government taxes the rich more so they can give it to the poor through obamacare.
Please explain why Obamacare is bad for the Jewish learning/working person.November 9, 2016 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1191752iacisrmmaParticipant
While certain portions of the law are good, the costs per individual are set to double and many companies are dropping out of the program.November 10, 2016 1:16 am at 1:16 am #1191753
Don’t generalize about costs doubling EVERY state is different.
Mrs. CTL and I have a policy purchased thru the Connecticut Health Care Exchange. I am self employed and always provided my own coverage. Our increase for 2017 will be 17%.
This is comparable for what other companies/plans are increasing in the group markets in CT.
Now for the benefits:
Preexisting conditions cannot prevent your from being covered
No more coverage caps.
Our policy is with the same carrier we had before Obamacare. It used to have a $1million annual cap, $3million lifetime, Those in the CR may know that Mrs. CTL spent a month on life support this spring and has had numerous surgeries, etc (another next Tuesday). Her bills have totaled more than $2million this year. That would have wiped out much of our equity and destroyed planned retirement,
If you have a life changing event, you can get coverage, even if it is not the annual enrollment period. Our 28 year old was working for a company who went belly up in 2014. Cobra was cost prohibitive as she was going from a good salary to unemployment compensation overnight. One call to the CT Healthcare Exchange got her immediate coverage with premiums based on her expected Unemployment Compensation income. Premium was only $35 per month. She had a new position within 3 weeks, but had to wait 90 days for company benefits…this took good care of her.
Our 20 year old is still covered on our policy until 26.
Our policy is with the same carrier as before and costs $600 less per month (and I don’t qualify for an income based savings).
Instead of losing doctors and hospitals, many specialists who didn’t take our policy before Obamacare, do now.November 10, 2016 1:35 am at 1:35 am #1191754SpunkMember
Refuah shleimah to Mrs. CTL.November 10, 2016 2:20 am at 2:20 am #1191755
if one of the first things trump is going to do is “repeal obamacare” then why even sign up for it if it will shut down a few weeks into the year?November 10, 2016 2:23 am at 2:23 am #1191756
“Please explain why Obamacare is bad for the Jewish learning/working person”
Its not but its from Democrats so it has to be bad.
“the costs per individual are set to double and many companies are dropping out of the program”
Most Americans purchase insurance through their employers that hasnt changed. Among those (Relatively few) who purchase their own insurance many policies have gone up. This is primarily becasue insurance companies can no longer refuse to cover preexisting conditions. This means if say a person with malignancy wants insurance and coverage for chemo that would cost hundreds of thousands annualy, the insurance company cant say no, which is what they had done in the past. This obviosuly creates a problem for insurance companies since someone can wait until they are sick and show up paying one year premium and asking for coverage in the hundreds of thousands or even millions a year and they cant say no. To make up for that Obamacare mandated everybody have insurance this way if 1000 healthy young people all pay 1000 dollars and one person gets sick costing 500,000 the insuracne company covers it and still profits. The problem is that the fines are too small to force young health peope to buy in,many are opting to pay the fine, knowing if R”l they do get sick insurance company cant say no then to make up for that premiums go up
There are other problems too, but this is the biggest.
That being said. Obamacare is unlikely to go anywhere. IT will be hard to take away insurance from those previously deemed “uninsurable” and most dont think insurance companies should eb allowed to turn away those people.
But the only way for that to work is if young healthy people are forced to buy insurance.November 10, 2016 3:31 am at 3:31 am #1191757akupermaParticipant
Kollel families are likely to qualify for Medicaid. The typical Obamacare policy requires a large upfront cash payment and doesn’t help unless you have a major illness. This means that one is forced to by insurance that one doesn’t use, and probably doesn’t need (remember that many people will become eligible for Medicaid if they become sick enough to lose their incomes).November 10, 2016 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1191758
in states with Healthcare exchanges, qualification for Medicaid is quick and easy determined by application for insurance…too low an income to contribute even a reduced fee, then you are enrolled in Medicaid. Medicaid is now part of Obamacare
NO INTERACTION with state welfare/social service dept/ No long waits, cards arrive in a week. No being forced to attend employment training, etc/November 10, 2016 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1191759
The President can’t repeal Obamacare.
Only Congress can do that.
They would never repeal it effective immediately, they would enact legislation to end it at the end of a calendar year.
Since most are up for reelection every 2 years, chances are it won’t be repealed but drastically modified.November 10, 2016 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #1191760
17 percent increase year over year, assuming constant rate of grow th means it doubles every 5 years, so in 15 years it will be 8 times as much.
NiceNovember 10, 2016 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1191761
Think about jwhat you’re paying now versus 8 years ago.November 10, 2016 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1191762
Think about jwhat you’re paying now versus 8 years ago.
And how much higher your deductible isNovember 10, 2016 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1191764shtusimParticipant
I am a small business owner. I cannot speak about the subsidy portion of Obamacare, but i can speak about the costs and services. We had a group plan for many years that was good for all of us. it increased between 5-10% yearly. Then came Obama care! Our perfectly good plan was NOT GOOD. it was replaced with an Obama plan that cost 30% more, and was accepted by fewer doctors. Our deducible and out of pocket increased as well.This has happened every single year since. we have switched companies several times in order to keep the ridiculously rising costs down! Our current plan is going up almost 30% for next year. They are covering fewer hospitals and doctors, and my out of pocket has gone up $2000.
SO TELL ME, WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT OBAMACARE. One more year, and I wont be able to afford health insurance!!November 10, 2016 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1191765
As much as we love to hate ObamaCare, health insurance costs have been going up for years, prior to its implementation. Remember how switching to HMOs was supposed to “stop the bleeding”? The idea was that negotiated rates with providers would save us all some dough. That helped, but not for long. Similarly co-pays were supposed to curb consumer spending on non-essentials.
The “problems” with healthcare costs in the US include advances in (expensive) medical technology, high cost of medical school and malpractice suits.
So although there’s some corruption and price gouging going on, it’s expensive no matter who pays for it.
And many Heimishe Yidden are self-employed or small business owners. The idea that employers offer health insurance and covers many of us without a hitch is baloney – we are the employers and employees that have to pay those crazy premiums.
A single payer system can perhaps cut costs but will come at the expense of medical advances and availability of services – no one wants to work for no or low gain.
So there’s no magic answer as far as I can tell.November 10, 2016 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1191766
Israel has single payer called Kupat Cholim, Of course there are times someone needs to leave the country for medical care (There are about as many people in Israel as in NYC alone) so its easier to have better doctors here. I wonder what people in Israel prefer Kupat Cholim or the US healthcare systemNovember 10, 2016 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1191767lesschumrasParticipant
CT, please take off your Obama rosy glasses. You are the one who is generalizing. Obama care required a one size fits all insurance plan that included all possible conditions. Besides being expensive, that is why Obama’s promise that you could keep your current policy was a lie; it was canceled if it didn’t cover everything. Existing Obama care policies carry enormous ( upwards of $10,000 ) in order to lower the expensive premiums. Most exchanges now have only one carrier,who can now charge high premiums without competition. With regards to Medicaid, most states in the south and west chose not to expand their Medicaid programs. Obamacare largely didn’t affect kollel families as , for the most part, they were already on Medicaid.
It has had other negative effects on people’s incomes and employment. Many employers, to avoid paying for Obamacare have kept part-timers hours under 30 per week and total employees to under 50. My employer , a large hospital, despite significantly raising deductibles , has had to significantly raise our premiums,
Obama created part of the problem by reneging on promises by granting exemptions to large unions that supported him. This allowed them to keep their existing policies and kept out thousands of young healthy people whose premiums had been counted upon to offset the costs of the preexisting patientsNovember 10, 2016 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1191768
obama did this so his name should always be remembered forever in the USA. the first thing trump should do immediately is at least change the name of obamacare so the worst USA president can be erased & forgotten ASAP.
and then trump should work step by step on repealing obamacare with the senate & congress
change it immediately to TrumpcareNovember 10, 2016 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1191769
Why rename it Trumpcare just to repeal it?
They should call it something neutral, such as “The Affordable Care Act”.
That actually has a nice ring to it.November 10, 2016 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #1191770
No insurance company wants to insure a Frum family with 7 Kids. Dont think you will be so safe
A major jewish organization that gave health benefits to its employees severly cut back its health care plan because too many of their employees were taking the coverage and the agency was spending thousands of Tzdekah funds paying for health care for employees rather than using the funds towards the TzdekahNovember 10, 2016 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1191771lesschumrasParticipant
Mosheach, the official name is the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare is a nicknameNovember 10, 2016 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1191772
Baruch shekivanti!November 10, 2016 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #1191773
“obama did this so his name should always be remembered forever in the USA. the first thing trump should do immediately is at least change the name of obamacare so the worst USA president can be erased & forgotten ASAP.”
Lol! best comment ever.
OBamacare was coined by Republicans todenigrate Obamacare. I dont think Obama ever used the term (though it is possible he may have recently come to embrae it)
Unless you were kidding and I didnt get it
“SO TELL ME, WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT OBAMACARE.”
Im sorry that you are having a problem. however the vast majority of the country arent small buisness owners. I beleive 90% or so get insuracne through their employers. These people have been largely unaffected and have been able to keep their doctor.November 10, 2016 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1191774
THOUSANDS maybe even millions of more people know it & call it obamacare then the ACA…November 10, 2016 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1191775benignumanParticipant
Obamacare has mailos and chesronos. Unfortunately the mailos and chesronos are tied to each other so that you can’t get one without the other (e.g. covering pre-existing conditions requires a mandate).
If you do not have insurance through your employment and if your income is low enough, then Obamacare makes you better off.
If you have insurance through your employment or if your income is relatively high, then Obamacare leaves you worse off. My health insurance costs through my employment have increased every year since the ACA went into effect and the coverage has gone down (i.e. higher deductables, higher co-pays, higher-co-insurance).
Overall, more people have been hurt by Obamacare than gained from it (because 70% or so get their insurance through their employment) but the hurt has been relatively minor to the gains.
In short, repealing Obamacare will help more people a little and hurt fewer people a lot.November 10, 2016 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1191776yehudayonaParticipant
The extension of coverage to children up to age 26 is a provision of the ACA that’s very popular. It’s unlikely that the GOP will be stupid enough to eliminate this.November 10, 2016 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1191777kollelmanParticipant
Since insurance companies cannot reject pre-existing conditions, their risk (and with that, the premiums) has gone up significantly. Now the young, healthy people can’t afford the high premiums and would rather pay the IRS penalty. The people signing up are often the people who need the insurance and couldn’t obtain it before, due to pre-existing conditions. The cost to cover those people are much higher, since their premiums will never cover the cost to the insurance company. Insurance raises rates, more young people drop out and the death-spiral continues. It is another unsustainable situation.November 10, 2016 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1191778Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant
When I was living in the US, I only became eligible for Jersey Care under Obamacare. I’m not sure if I wasn’t eligible at all before that or if I just wasn’t eligible for dental care (which was what I really needed), but I think I wasn’t eligible at all.November 11, 2016 12:49 am at 12:49 am #1191779
Both of you are overestimating the percentage of Americans covered by employers. Additionally, as Benignuman mentioned, even those that have insurance through their employer have out of pocket costs, which usually increase when the market rates increase (unless the employer absorbs the WHOLE cost, including increases).
This from Wiki:
November 11, 2016 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1191780
I was way off, thanks for the correction. However while misstated, my point is till true since the 90% getting through their employer and public health insurance arent the ones whose premiums have been going up.November 11, 2016 5:30 am at 5:30 am #1191781
Ubiq: You’re welcome…
However, benignuman seems to disagree with you about employees costs not going up under Obamacare. Perhaps not premiums in his case, but he cites a few examples of types of out-of-pocket costs that have gone up every year since Obamacare began. Every employer seeks to pay less, not more, so to fight rising premiums they’ll choose the plan that’s least costly for them, and likely costlier for the employee.
I need to mention again that health care costs have been steadily going up before Obamacare as well. What’s driving the increases nowadays (which I wasn’t aware of earlier so I didn’t mention it) are the cost of mental health, and simply more people consuming more medical care.November 11, 2016 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #1191783
What’s driving the increases nowadays (which I wasn’t aware of earlier so I didn’t mention it) are the cost of mental health, and simply more people consuming more medical care.
What the ACA added to that is that now, those paying in full for insurance are subsidizing those who aren’t.November 11, 2016 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1191784shtusimParticipant
As a small business owner, I am paying for my employees health insurance. They are getting less coverage, and i am paying more. SO WE BOTH LOSE.
Just by allowing insurance to be purchased across state lines will drop the cost of insurance. COMPETITION IS GOODNovember 11, 2016 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1191785
Allowing competition across state lines is not a simple fix. Insurers need to have a good local network, with negotiated rates to compete. And if there are too many insurers rates may not favor the insurance companies as much and doctors may opt out of many networks – leaving you less likely to retain your current doctors.November 11, 2016 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1191786benignumanParticipant
My estimate of the people covered by insurance that they purchase through their employment (often subsidized to some degree by their employer) was not including those that were already getting their healthcare from Medicare or Medicaid before the ACA.
My premiums have gone up but not at a pace that seems outrageous. The increase in deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance, however, have been terrible. I am now paying over 1,700 a month (employer pays the rest) for incomplete coverage and what amounts to a high-deductible plan (compared to my deductibles of 4 years ago.November 11, 2016 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1191787
“Just by allowing insurance to be purchased across state lines will drop the cost of insurance. COMPETITION IS GOOD”
Though what I think is more critical is some form of Tort reform. The sheer number of tests ordered ” just in case” is playing a large part in crippling the system. I see it first hand. I am personally guilty of ordering hundreds of medically unnecessary tests ( that occasional y have lead to harm) all to both placate patients (customers?) and to “protect myself”November 11, 2016 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #1191788
Mammele, why should healthcare be different than any other industry, where competition keeps prices reasonable?
Ubiquitin, have you (and the patient) ever benefitted from these “unnecessary” tests?November 11, 2016 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1191789
My premiums have gone up but not at a pace that seems outrageous. The increase in deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance, however, have been terrible. I am now paying over 1,700 a month (employer pays the rest) for incomplete coverage and what amounts to a high-deductible plan (compared to my deductibles of 4 years ago.
Sorry, 1700 a month is 20k a year. That seems outrageous. How much were you paying before?
Also, you should really switch employers. I’m sure you can get the traditional low deductible plan at many comparable employers for 11kNovember 11, 2016 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1191790hujuParticipant
Lost in all the discussion of Obamacare has been the mitzvah that we must be sure that all people have health care. Barack Hussein Obama tried (with a reasonable level of success) to fulfill this mitzvah, and he ought to get some credit for it from the frum among us.November 11, 2016 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1191791
im sure he focused on the mitzva for creating this disaster obamacare.
is it a mitzva to do something if it will create a disaster?November 11, 2016 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #1191792
“Ubiquitin, have you (and the patient) ever benefitted from these “unnecessary” tests?”
The only exception is
I have gained by saving time in explaining why test wasnt indicated at a certain point it is easier to just to order it. As for the patient the only thing they may have gained is piece of mind. But most of those cases the patient doesnt even know if the test was being considered and if it is neccesary it just gets ordered pt gets wheeled of for CT scan without being told in that case Data shows ultrasound is just as effective but safer as no radiation and no contrast.November 11, 2016 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1191793
Lost in all the discussion of Obamacare has been the mitzvah that we must be sure that all people have health care. Barack Hussein Obama tried (with a reasonable level of success) to fulfill this mitzvah, and he ought to get some credit for it from the frum among us.
Yup, mitzva number 614!November 13, 2016 12:37 am at 12:37 am #1191794
DY: healthcare is different in many ways. Among them that most of us already have our own doctors we prefer. Change is not good for the patient medically or psychologically. I can buy a light bulb from Washington state on Amazon (although they’re also becoming more locally based) or from my corner grocer with little impact on my day-to-day life.
If a new network wants to come to town they need to be huge for my doctor to want to join/accept it — meaning many of his potential patients will be using it. Health insurance networks negotiate favorable rates from providers by offering patients in “bulk”. So an out-of-state based network either won’t have my doctor and hospital on it (especially in the early stages when they need to get familiar with the territory and build alliances) or if they do manage to, since they’re not big locally, the bargained rates won’t be such a great bargain and nobody will gain.
And from where do you take your information from that Employer Plans are subsidizing ObamaCare? I haven’t seen that anywhere. According to a Fortune article I just read, specialty drugs are one of the top drivers of Employer premium increases — and so the reasons are many — but insurance companies seem to keep each plan separate, and dump those that aren’t profitable.
As we’ve seen from Obamacare where many insurance companies are opting out, many companies are in it for the quick buck, so when things don’t pan out as planned and profits tank, they simply make a u-turn…November 13, 2016 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1191795Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant
He’s a goy, so it must be Mitzvah #8.November 13, 2016 7:43 am at 7:43 am #1191796HealthParticipant
Kollelman -“Since insurance companies cannot reject pre-existing conditions, their risk (and with that, the premiums) has gone up significantly”
You hit the nail on the head!
Why should e/o else pay because you got AIDS?!?
This is worse thought processes than Communism!
Let them become broke and then they will get Medicaid!November 13, 2016 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1191797
Trump has said he will not eliminate the pre-elisting clause and most Republicans would not eliminate that provision eitherNovember 13, 2016 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #1191798
“Why should e/o else pay because you got AIDS?!?”
Uch you are the most offensive poster on this forum.
So if a person gets a life altering illness like Cancer your response is “Let them become broke and then they will get Medicaid!”
and you claim to be a Ben Avraham of which the Gemara says we are “Rachmanim, Bayshanim, and Gomlei chasadim” I think your one post above single handedly proved you lack all three of those qualitiesNovember 13, 2016 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1191799
Then you cant get rid of forcing everyone to buy health insurance either as explained aboveNovember 13, 2016 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1191800
You basically just hit the major issue with health careNovember 13, 2016 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1191801
Sure, because the major issue with healthcare is that it’s extremely expensive.November 13, 2016 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1191802
As we’ve seen from Obamacare where many insurance companies are opting out, many companies are in it for the quick buck, so when things don’t pan out as planned and profits tank, they simply make a u-turn…
Precisely why Obamacare gas got to go – we’re getting fewer and fewer choices, and before you know it, nobody will offer plans under Obamacare in some areas.
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