January 28, 2011 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #594592
If you would have been as knowledgable and experienced as you are now, would you have made different Shidduch related decisions? This question applies to those thirty and up, who’ve had time to see some (not all) results of their Shidduch related decisions.
Im thinking this thread could help singles in crystalizing whats Ikar and whats Tafel, and how that changes over time.
Of your Shidduch related decisions what would you change if you could?January 28, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #735752
Id have listened to my parents more. In the end, When I did listen, I made the right decisions, b”H.January 28, 2011 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #735753
I’d have checked out muuuuuch more.
I would have found out more about the way he treats people he ISN’T TRYING TO IMPRESS,like immediate family,and “plain” people.
I’d have found out waaaaaaaay more about his 5 totally OTD years(which was hidden from me),for which he maintained much nostalgia,beneath the new Borsalino and scraggly beard.
And that’s just for starters.
BUT MOST OF ALL I WOULD HAVE DAVENED MUCH MORE SPECIFICALLY FOR A GOOD SHIDDUCH,he should have real yiras shomayim,be honest,be kind, NORMAL,etc.
I don’t think of myself as anywhere near perfect,so don’t start beating me up on that.
SOME FLAWS CHALLENGE A MARRIAGE,ABUSE KILLS IT.
Read that again.It’s the truth.January 28, 2011 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #735754
eclipse- PLEASE dont beat urself up!!!!!!January 28, 2011 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #735755
s2021,working on it!:)January 28, 2011 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #735756rcParticipant
i know its sounds crazy but talk to alot of pple who know the person and just listen to them talk. if there are negative words then investigate but it probably is an indication of something worse. Its not that you are only looking for perfect people. Its that you are looking for :alle maalos” becuase life itself throws you so many curve balls you need to start out with as many maalos as possible. Dont ever base a shidduch on negative traits. Like he is so perfect for me we both love shopping for clothes, or spending money, or are self centered. Traits for a mate need to be positive even if you think differently about yourself. and if you are a girl, i would BEG YOU to put yourself in a situation where you see him interact with his mother. how does he treat her? how does he talk to her? because he will treat you like that one day. DEFINITELY…NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES… and if you ever hear the words. “Do your homework” run like the wind!!!!!
one other really important aspect is this. Once you have decided to get engaged, DONT get engaged right away. Take a week of just getting used to the idea and making sure you are comfortable with the decision. Also, after that period guys usually let their guard down, and dates that are more like errands to the cleaners are sometimes more telling about a person than a formal or casual planned date. Have a few of those and then make sure you are comfortable. Its a must to have a mentor who is married and knows you well. NOT JUST THE CR!!!January 29, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #735757twiggyMember
omg this thread is great!! very helpful for someone on the market. thanks guys!January 29, 2011 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #735758fabieMember
Try to find out what sort of influence the prespective family mostly, but not only will have on the marriage.January 30, 2011 12:23 am at 12:23 am #735759oomisParticipant
Eclipse , 🙁January 30, 2011 1:14 am at 1:14 am #735760ShrekMember
I would have trusted my gut more, and everyone else’s opinions less.January 30, 2011 1:14 am at 1:14 am #735761doodle jumpParticipant
eclipse: I am sorry. I hope you are at a better place now.
What if one of them comes from out of town. A town in which you don’t know a soul. You check the few contacts that you are given but then what?January 30, 2011 2:02 am at 2:02 am #735762
doodle:yes!I say “sheheche’yanu” DAILY!(in my mind)January 30, 2011 2:03 am at 2:03 am #735763
oomis-the worst is over,b”hJanuary 30, 2011 5:42 am at 5:42 am #735764
Noone told me the truth. If I would have known the truth, I wouldn’t have gone out ever in the first place. People, just be careful. Most people have their own agendas and you’re not one of them. Don’t trust anyone and I’m not being paranoid; and this includes your own family members. The more questions you ask, the more likely you might be able to discern some sort of cover-up.January 30, 2011 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #735765ProfessionalMember
eclipse, is it over?January 31, 2011 12:08 am at 12:08 am #735766
Health, ” Don’t trust anyone and I’m not being paranoid; and this includes your own family members.”
If you cant trust relatives, who can you trust? Youth is wasted on the young. Sadly, too often in youth, you cant trust yourself. Personally, I had seriously bad judgement, because when you’re young, many think- what will my friends say about my Chasan/Kallah.
B”H at some point I took advice from my parents. They knew me better than I knew myself.January 31, 2011 12:34 am at 12:34 am #735767
Of Course – You should be able to trust them more than everyone, but it doesn’t always work that way. I wasn’t talking about my parents, even though I did have a miscommunication with them, but other relatives. If you have a mentor or Rebbe, it’s also a good idea to discuss anything final with them.January 31, 2011 12:36 am at 12:36 am #735768be goodParticipant
Looking back, I would’ve classified people based on their middos, and other personal qualities and not on whether they are learning or working. I / my parents nixed so many guys based on the learning/working thing and I see now that in the long term it doesn’t make a difference in what type of husband a guy will be.
I look back I wish I could date half of those ‘working-guys’ who were suggested to me back then…January 31, 2011 12:49 am at 12:49 am #735769
be good, you must be one of my good friends or their children! I’m middle aged, and I hear EXACTLY that from people in MY generation and their children!!! I cant believe someone else wrote that. You sound like me talking.January 31, 2011 2:08 am at 2:08 am #735770
Be good -I actually have complained about this millions of times. I wanted to sit and learn, but I couldn’t get a normal shidduch because I had a bad reputation that I wasn’t the biggest “Masmid”.
Noone even cared about Midos. I know I have a lot better Midos than some of these “Masmidim”. But I don’t think anything has changed in the last 20 years. People don’t care about Midos; they base your reputation on things like money, good learner, popular, Hasmoda, etc. To me, all those things are secondary to good midos. If you have bad midos, what are all those qualities worth?January 31, 2011 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #735771
Ask any divorced woman what’s on her list:”I just want a nice guy”.Half of them don’t even care if he’s litvish or chasidish!
I am personally from the “still traumatized” club.Also,I was trapped for so long,I don’t ever want to be trapped like that again.I asked for a “get” many,many times and was turned down,while rabbonim refused to make him move out….But he had this fear that one day I would figure out I could go to court so HE GOT A LAWYER.
Meanwhile,I never went that route,and he beat me to it.
One day,out of the blue,I got a summons to court,and a few months later he had me arrested.
And people think they can convince me that “there are a lot of good guys out there”?!Maybe so,but I will not take that chance again!January 31, 2011 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #735772hanibParticipant
i would do what i did after many years of dating the wrong type. clarify in thought and in words what was very important to me; tell everyone, even those who would think i was too picky, too unrealistic; and look into the other side very well (asking questions, and following up with questions when i heard hesistancy in people’s voices), and trusting myself when i felt the answer was no!January 31, 2011 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #735773hanibParticipant
eclipse: i’m so sorry that you had to go through what you went through.
my advice for people who are asked shidduch questions: please, please answer honestly. if the boy or girl has a problem, don’t think that marriage will solve the problem. just think, if you hide this information and the 2 get married, will you be feeling guilty for the rest of your life? obviously, ask shailos! but ask!!!! and if you should tell, please tell!!!!!!January 31, 2011 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #735774
I didn’t mean to scare all the single girls half to death.
Mods,if my post is too shocking,it may be deleted.
I guess ’cause I’m physically under the weather(coughing,chills,etc.) I’m not posting as responsibly as I usually try to do.January 31, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #735775
in all honesty everything happens for a reason and no matter what we have all gone through, had we not gone through it, we wouldn’t have the children we have, nor the grandchildren we have. We wouldn’t have the nieces and nephews we have and love and the other family members etc. Some of us live with the ups and downs no matter what, and some of us got out B”H with at least some of our sanity and dignity in tact. Some of us B”H have many more ups than downs, but no matter what, who, how and where Hashem has a plan for all of us and no one knows before hand what that plan will be. We don’t believe in crystal balls and even if we did we don’t have a way to look into the future to know if we are making the right choice or if we have the right information or even if people are telling us the truth. It is truly in Hashem’s hands. We can only do the best we can and when we are at the point of choosing we all feel we have done our best.
The next step is to not take your marriage for granted and not think it will take care of itself. Marriage is a job onto itself and it needs to be worked on every single day by both partners. Even if both of you are the best people in the world, if you don’t nurture and care for your marriage it can falter and fail. And on the flip side, even if your marriage was doomed from the start you can work on it and nurture it to be the best and most loving and warm marriage in the world. It takes love, care and attention.
My husband asked my nephew the chosson a few weeks ago what was the most important thing he learned from his Chosson Rebbe. His reply was the three “A’s” Attention, Appreciation and Affection. No one is a “Navi” and no one can predict whether or not a marriage will work or whether or not you have all the information or the whole truth about your future spouse. On the other hand, you and your future spouse can choose to make your marriage work no matter who you were in the past. It all depends on what you choose to be in the future.January 31, 2011 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #735776
I think sometimes people jump into Shidduchim even when they dont feel right about it, because they get red too few Shidduchim, because there are no real Shadchanim who serve the masses. Most professional Shadchanim most often busy themselves with the very young, the very top and the very rich, who they feel they can sell easiest.January 31, 2011 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #735777
I started 2 positive threads to make up for that one!January 31, 2011 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #735778
aries2756, how right you are!January 31, 2011 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #735780
Aries – If a person feels they were abused during their marriage and subsequently divorced, do you think that person should give up on marriage altogether?January 31, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #735781
Health,I know your question was posed to Aries,but I’d just like to explain that by me, half the trauma was seeing how many men were willing to help him.January 31, 2011 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #735782
Health, when 2 people divorce, wouldnt BOTH parties feel the other abused them in some way, (whether real or imagined)?
Being middle aged and having heard and seen a lot, I think, in their heart of hearts, even relatively happily married people have some grievance against their spouse that often involves some kind of abuse, kal v chomer divorced couples. I think many relatively happily married people have an “if only he/she” that’s very painful, but live with it because they know life isnt perfect, and the good outweighs the bad.January 31, 2011 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #735783TheGoqParticipant
have a speedy and complete refuah shleimah eclipseJanuary 31, 2011 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #735784
eclipse- I posted previously that I don’t even blame my ex so much. There were a lot of “Frum” women and men who pushed her. The main instigators are MY relatives. There are many, many evil people in this world from both genders. Any one gender is not totally BAD!January 31, 2011 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #735785
health- i could be wrong but i dont really think there r many many evil people in this world. stupid, yes, but evil..?January 31, 2011 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #735786always hereParticipant
once again, sorry to go off topic, but: I’ve barely gotten used to the fact that ‘Health’ is a man, & now I find out that ‘aries2756’ is a woman?!?! oy vey! a blessing on my head, mazel tov, mazel tov!! 🙂January 31, 2011 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #735787HaLeiViParticipant
The Yerushalmi says that someone who was bitten by a snake is afraid of a rope.January 31, 2011 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #735788
…if only there were more ropes and less snakes….unless they just seem like snakes but r actually just ropes… that would be lovelyJanuary 31, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #735789HaLeiViParticipant
Feel free to run away, but don’t yell, There’s A Snake!January 31, 2011 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #735790
lol k- but what about ropes that bite?January 31, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #735791maynishMember
OMG ECLIPSE: “Ask any divorced woman what’s on her list:”I just want a nice guy”.Half of them don’t even care if he’s litvish or chasidish!”
why dont singles think like that too. thats the right way to think. no but the girls think now “i need the shtarkest learner down to earth, who can afford saks.>>>>>
and besides GIRLS when you hear that most of the times it is all lies.. they told you what you wanted to hear….
I know so many guys that their wifes and father in laws think they are the shtarkest guys and these guys haven’t cracked a book in 3years… so go figure….
life is all about GOOD PEOPLE>>> to the girls: find a boy who is gonna take CARE OF YOU>>>> that what is important…
and to the boys. just find a girl who is pretty in your eyes and you think could be a good mother. WHO CARES ABOUT $$$$.. A. money comes and money goes… and B. who said your father in law would give you… C. even if he does give you DO YOU WANNA BE OWNED BY HIM>!!!!!!!!February 1, 2011 1:48 am at 1:48 am #735792
Health, no I don’t think you should give up on marriage. I think that there is someone out there for you who will truly appreciate you and complete you. AND when you allow yourself to heal and trust again and look for that person you will find her. AND when you do find her, SHE will be your Bracha, your Mazal and will complete you in a way that you will understand what it means to have a true ezer k’negdo and a true partner.
Health, just because there is a reason why you had to go through what you did, that does not mean that Hashem does not have another plan for you, and does not have Happiness meant for you in the future. There is a woman out there who needs YOU, a wonderful man just like you who SHE can appreciate, admire and respect. Maybe a good and better role model for her own family. Maybe just someone who she can look up to and shower with love and devotion. There is an emptiness in your life and there is a woman out there with an emptiness in her life. When the time is right you will find each other and complete each other to become an amazing partnership.February 1, 2011 2:11 am at 2:11 am #735793
Goq, t.y. It’s taking forever to feel back to myself,but I’m trying.
Health,no(not all bad) but the percentages…your case is one of the exceptions I guess.February 1, 2011 3:07 am at 3:07 am #735794
When I first got married I wrote a beautiful novel about couples enjoying the true beauty of kollel life.I wish I still felt like publishing it,because even Feldheim said it was well-written,but I felt so totally betrayed by it all,I actually dumped it.I’m like,”Who wrote this??” Sad,but true.February 1, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #735795
And the issues were NOT money!I lived on nothing and didn’t care(until he pretended we had LESS than nothing).Don’t mind me,I’ve just been sick and working hard and dealing with some annoying people. Can I be VIRTUALLY CRANKY? Gotta be grumpy somewhere!February 1, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #735796
There! Now I feel better!:)February 1, 2011 3:22 am at 3:22 am #735797
Should we rename this thread Watermelon Monologue?(please don’t!) It’s kinda embarrassing.Someone pipe in with a word or two,eh?February 1, 2011 3:32 am at 3:32 am #735798justdavenMember
Here are a few questions to ask when doing research on a shidduch:
1. Who are his/her enemies? (If they refuse, “next one on the list!”)
2. What is his/her greatest weakness?
3. Have you ever seen him/her lose his/her temper?
4. If he/she would get divorced one day, why do you think that would happen?February 1, 2011 3:41 am at 3:41 am #735799
eclipse, venting is good for the soul. It is like releasing the venom that poisons the body and makes you ill. Spit it out and get rid of it, better to dump the baggage than drag it around with you forever.February 1, 2011 3:50 am at 3:50 am #735800
just daven,thanks for posting!
But I strongly disagree with questions #1,#2, and #4.February 1, 2011 3:52 am at 3:52 am #735801
Aries,thanks!I’m “good” now!
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