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Gavra
You’re good at twisting things. Are you a lawyer?
If I were snarky, I would respond:
“WIY, you’re good at giving backhanded insults. Are you a wealthy Shviger?”
If I were snarky. 🙂
Gavra, what’s wrong with a wealthy shviger?
Doesn’t everyone wish they had one???
g_a_w: So she is Stam an Am Haaretz who doesn’t know that men have been working in kitchens (including the Amoraim that I & WS mentioned earlier) for Dorei Doros? Your explanation may be plausable, but mine is being Dan L’Kaf Zechus.
In your explanation, you are making the Rebbitzen out to be a bigger Am Haaretz. The Tanaaim and Amoraim definitely had more Torah to be mechabed than my R”Y does. But from the fact that they are singled out we can infer that they were yichidim in their actions who saw specific toeles for them in the individual things they did. And we can also say they did it for kovod Shabbos or Sholom Bayis. Both may be reasons to make exceptions. But from the exceptions we can learn the rule.
Sam2: That’s because it’s a good story and it wouldn’t go over as well in certain Velts with the name R’ Soloveitchik as with R’ Moshe. But it happened with Rav Yoshe Ber. I have heard several firsthand testimonies to that fact.
I don’t know if what you say is correct or just a smidgen or m”sra. Who is Rav Yoshe Ber?
Gavra, what’s wrong with a wealthy shviger?
Doesn’t everyone wish they had one???
Certainly not. Even those that have one would very possibly prefer just the Shver (by any means neccesary, including hiring Mr. Jonathan Teatime (pronounced “Te-ah-tim-eh”) to perform an inhumation), if they could get away with it.
(Enough Shvigger jokes).
DH: I have already decided on an alternative understanding. In addition, you are getting into dangerous territory by saying that one should not follow the actions of the Amoraim in the Gemorah because they were “singled out”. Who is to say that Shalom Bayis, Kavod Shabbos or a much needed break from yeshiva food should not apply to any specific individual? (Its similar to the earlier Machlokes regarding women and the individual vs. the the Klal. I don’t expect you to agree here either).
Gavra
You do realize that in those days they learned baal peh (I think even once the gemara was put down in writing the preferred method was still baall peh) so it was possible to do some cooking while reciting mishnayos baal peh or thinking in learning.
Much harder today when we learn from sefarim and most people don’t know much of anything baal peh. Additionally we aren’t the amoraim and if we tried to learn and cook the likelihood of the food getting burned or ingredients left out. ..is high. Although I have listened to shiurim (nothing too involving) while doing other things so it is possible to do light learning while doing something else as lkng as the something else doesn’t require too much focus.
Gavra
An additional point is that gedolim on caliber of Rav Aharon Kotler and others valued every moment and learned yomam volayloh so it would be bittul Torah and maybe not befitting for them to do certain chores and what not (not lfi kevodo…). If an avreich in this generation is a huge masmid and Talmud chacham and he mamish doesn’t waste a minute of time from learning and doesn’t waste time shmoozing and drinking coffee and all that then I would say he has a dispensation. Since this doesn’t exist anymore (there may be a handful of such people in the world) so I think it would be gayvah and foolishness for a man to not be willing ro help his wife at home.
DH: R’ Yoshe Ber is Rav Yosef Dov HaLeivi Soloveitchik, affectionately called The Rav by many and pejoratively called JB by many.
g_a_w: In addition, you are getting into dangerous territory by saying that one should not follow the actions of the Amoraim in the Gemorah because they were “singled out”. Who is to say that Shalom Bayis, Kavod Shabbos or a much needed break from yeshiva food should not apply to any specific individual?
No you are 100% right, I just hadn’t thought of it while I was writing the paragraph. Of course for shalom bayis or even kovod Shabbos, the norms don’t apply (in general). But again, the understanding is that these are exceptional cases to the rule- ie., had Shablom Bayis not been an issue, then there is a general rule that would apply.
Sam2: Oh I didn’t recognize that as being one of his appellations.
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