OLYMPICS/MOSHIACH?

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  • #604115

    Be Happy
    Participant

    Living in London quite close to one of the stadiums I wanted to share with others what is going on and some thoughts…

    The roads and the side walks (pavements) have been repaved. There are new buses in some areas. Lanes in some roads are now a no go area only for Olympics traffic. Over 1000 participants are expected to arrive in london tomorrow. The anticipation and the preparation are mega.

    This got me thinking about Moshiach. What preparation are we doing for his imminent arrival? Are we really waiting and hoping and feeling that he is coming now….

    I also thought can you imagine when Moshiach comes and the Beis Hamigdosh will be rebuilt the roadsbeing repaved for oila regel – the no go area lanes for the Kohanim to do the True avoida.

    #886359

    repharim
    Member

    To be honest, most people should be praying that moshiach does not come. Mainly because anyone who is not a true tzaddik is going to perish. It does say that the majority of the world will be destroyed. Kind of like back in egypt, only 1/3rd of the jews made it out. And back then we were far holier people…now imagine jews today….no mass slavery and yet you hardly see people caring about getting closer to Hashem.

    So…really…are we really waiting and hoping for him? Maybe, but most of us don’t realize that we are practically asking for our own deaths. This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t hope for moshiach…but hope for him and do tshuva like no tomorrow…because the moment we hear the shofar there is no tomorrow for many of us.

    #886360

    Sam2
    Participant

    Repharim: Better that I don’t make it but K’lal Yisrael has Mashiach than me continuing my life in this current world. It would take the most selfish of people to want to keep themselves in a better position at the expense of the entire world.

    #886361

    far east
    Member

    If 1/3 Jews make it then i would assume most of us will go. I mean what percentage of Jews are even religious? Sadly it’s less then a third so as long as your keeping the basics I would assume you’ll be saved

    #886362

    Kozov
    Member

    Repharim, its not like there will be nothing left of us if we die in this world ch”v if were not tzadikim gmurim. Also we have a cheilek in tchiyas hameisim.

    Actually the prophets said this Geula will be different.

    Yishayahu 27, 13

    ??????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ?????? ???????????? ???????? ???-????? ?????????; ???????? ??????????? ??????? ?????, ?????? ??????????.

    ??????? ???????? ??????, ???????? ?????????? ???????, ??????? ?????????? ???????? ????????, ?????????????? ???????? ?????????; ??????????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????, ??????????????.

    Rambam Tshuva 7, 5

    ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???’ ???? ?? ?’ ????? ??? ?’ ????? ???’:

    #886363

    557
    Participant

    repharim – only 1/5 of the Jews made it out.

    far east – don’t assume that all religious Jews will necessarily make it. We don’t know Hashem’s cheshbonos.

    #886364

    Be Happy
    Participant

    Surely we need to be optimistic and more hopeful? We can then try harder in our avodas Hashem – doing Mitzvas

    #886365

    Kozov
    Member

    557 dont necessarily assume that all -Jews- wont make it especially after reading my comment.

    There seems to be a trend of ignoring relevant posts against someones opinion posted afterward without directly addressing it.

    Let me bring another posuk: ?”? ??, ??) ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???)

    #886366

    And why do you think that the Beloved Garden of G-d has now multi lane highways and a new airport and dsl everywhere and even color tv? Unfortunately however there are people that prefer living in London for the Olympics rather than seeing Meshiach unfold before their very own eyes. Let this word to the wise be sufficient as Rav teichtel wrote in Eim Habanim Hasimcha describing the need of all Jews to live in the beloved garden of G-d.

    #886367

    557
    Participant

    Kozov – tchiyas hameisim requires one to first be dead. And your post is certainly irrelevant with respect to being alive for the coming of Moshiach.

    #886368

    Kozov
    Member

    557- I see what you’re saying. My comment about ignoring posts still stands though, just not about you.

    In my opinion though, with “perish” and “like in egypt.. only 1/3 made it out” and “there is no tomorrow for many of us” repharim indicated there is no future, period.

    #886369

    Actually the midrash according to rashi says 1 in 5 made it out of Egypt. And the unfortunate facts are there is no tommorrow for much more than 4 in 5. True most people will still be alive tommorrow but Torah language uses the physicall to mean the spiritual. Just check aliya stats and factor in the fact that today we have pressurized aircraft and major financial aid to come to the beloved garden of G-d and most turn it down.

    #886370

    WIY
    Member

    Repharim

    I like to believe that even the frum Jews of today, many whom are lost and confused and consumed by gashmiyus…will wake up when things get close to Moshiachs arrival. I believe there will be a very strong spirit of renewal and soul searching and most people will do Teshuvah. I believe the 4/5ths refer mostly to irreligious Jews.

    #886371

    BaalSechel
    Participant

    I feel compelled to respond to mistaken words of the poster who intimated that c”v we should be davening for Moshoiach’s non coming.

    The fact is that each one of us will be asked one day “Tzipeeso L’Yeshuah”. If a person can’t answer in the affirmative, he has failed in his mission on this world (see the Gemara carefully).

    The Rambam writes ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???

    The Brisker Rav infers that even one who believes that Moshiach will come, but he doesn’t look forward to it, is included.

    Let’s take a step back. What this means is that the relationship that we are expected to have with Hashem is one that includes our yearning for the relevation of His glory. Without that component of the relationship, there does not exist a relationship that Hashem cares for.

    Like every other facet of avoda, it may take a lot of work to get there, but what Hashem expects is for us to work on it.

    As for that posters quoting Medrashim as to the survival rate, the Rambam says that we won’t know what any of them mean until we get there.

    But to use it to scare people away from one of the most basic facets of lfe is certainly wrong.

    This is the time of year to focus on this particular avoda, each according to their abilities.

    #886372

    repharim
    Member

    i didn’t really mean people should pray that he doesn’t come. I’m just saying that if those people who are rashas knew what would happen to them *and* still refuse to change – they should pray that he doesn’t come. (But don’t worry they wont, because they don’t pray to begin with)

    Also doing the basics is not enough. People who are frum from birth can easily do all the basics like robots – and unfortunately i see them everywhere. Do you honestly call a person like that a tzaddik? Sure he won’t burn in hell but he probably hasn’t even touched his purpose in life.

    Lastly, “scaring people away” from truth is the most misguided and convoluted concept going around in today’s word. 99% of the kiruv organizations tell people to take it slow, only keep shabbos when you feel comfortable and don’t tell them the terrible consequences of NOT keeping shabbos. This is a terrible mistake and I’ll prove it. But before that – yes there are things you shouldn’t tell a person right off the bat. Like if he is not remotely interested in keeping shabbos – it’s an avayrah to tell him so. And *no one* should be telling converts or baal tshuvas customs things they “should” be doing which is not part of the core halacha. (Although most people today don’t even know what is actually halacha and what is a minchag today…sadly).

    Anyways, my proof is this…

    Hashem gave us the Torah and in it says ALL the terrible things that will happen to you if you don’t keep his mitzvos. Do you really think that Hashem doesn’t know what he’s doing? Do you really think Hashem covered parts of the torah from am yisrael when he gave us the torah so that “he shouldn’t scare us away”? I mean this is ridiculous a persons soul is on the line and you’re afraid to scare him??? Let me tell you this – there are two types of people, those whose hearts care about their soul and those who don’t. You cannot “scare” a person who doesn’t care because his heart is already deaf to your attempts. But the person who does care, scaring him will be the best thing in his life, because it’s the truth.

    #886373

    golfer
    Participant

    Thank you BaalSechel. That was truly written with sechel, and straightened out a faulty stream of crooked logic.

    #886374

    choppy
    Participant

    repharim: Well said (your most recent post) about the kiruv people’s incorrect approach.

    #886375

    557
    Participant

    repharim – Who are you to say who will “burn in hell” and who won’t? You have no clue the size of any individual’s cheilik in olam haba. There are many sources in chazal, but the one that comes to mind immediately is the Iggeres HaRamban regarding how a person will be judged.

    As for your proof, there are several errors, only two of which I will bother to mention. First off, the answer to your question “Do you really think Hashem covered parts of the Torah from am yisroel when he gave us the Torah…” is yes. I’ll leave it to you as an exercise to figure out.

    A logical error in your argument is the tautology you use regarding two types of people. To see this, consider a person who cares about his soul. If “scaring” him does not bring him closer to Torah, then according to your reasoning, it must be that he didn’t care about his soul. But if he doesn’t care about his soul, then “scaring” him will not bring him closer to Torah. This is a tautology and does not constitute proof.

    #886376

    yacr85
    Participant

    Repharim:

    I would like to address your point, especially as I am ‘one of those Kiruv people who sugar quote Judaism’

    I will ask you a rhetorical question, and obviously my words will be backed up by ‘proof’ as you say!

    Here goes. For the benefit of the readers, please tell us how many times you spaced out during Davening today. (please don’t say a number, but unless you are on an extremely high Madregah and spend countless hours working on your Davening, probably you space out MANY times)

    How about learning? Do you space out during learning? Have you ever forgotten something that you learned? Chazal say that someone who forgets something he learned is ‘Keilu mischayev benafsho’

    Should I keep going through all the Mitzvos or are you ashamed enough. (shemiras einayim! For example! You ever looked at a women and thought she was pretty!)

    Hashem does not ‘need’ anyone’s Mitzvos! Not your’s, nor mine, nor the greatest Tzaddik! Hashem does not get upset or angry if every Jew is Mechalel Shabbos 5000 times every single Shabbos.

    He has pUt us on this world for one reason and one reason only.

    (if your school taught you that your purpose in life is to ‘avoid hell’ as you call it, keep on reading)

    the Mesilas Yesharim, or as you would call it, the Really-scary-you-are-going-to-Gehinom-Mussar Sefer’ says, Veha’adam Lo Nivrah Elah Lehisanag El Hashem, man was only created to take pleasure in Hashem, and to benefit from His presence for that is the greatest pleasure and truest pleasure greater than any other pleasure in the world!

    The Rambam at the end of Hilchos Teshuva says that our Tachlis is to come close to Hashem and love Him and connect with Him, with a hugely deep and beautiful connection until you are so involved and close with Him that you are ‘love-sick (nafshi cholas ahava)

    That is the Rambam’s opinion on what Judaism is all about!

    We were created to have pleasure, to enjoy this world to the max!

    We can have this pleasure if we desire Hashem, and if we think all day about getting close to Him and loving Him.

    He doesn’t need anyone’s Mitzvos, He merely gave us the opportunity to have the most pleasurable experience.

    (He doesn’t stand with a clip-board checking off, “So who has been doing My precious Mitzvos today)

    So let me ask you, who are YOU to start judging who is and who isn’t keeping the Mitzvos?

    Your Mitzvos are the chosen ones?

    As far as ‘telling people to only take on new things slowly”, Rav Schwab writes that the reason why there were no steps on the Mizbeach, is because in your Avodas Hashem you should be moving very slowly upwards. No jumping up steps.

    Here’s the proof. Last year by Yom Kippur, you probably said, Hashem this year I’m going to be so good! I’m gonna Daven like Reb Chanina Ben Dosa, and I’m going to learn like the Vilna Goan and I’m going to say every Beracha from a siddur like the Manchester Rosh Yeshiva, and I’m going to see Gadlus Habore in every creature, like Reb Avigdor Miller.

    Actually in reality most people have no idea what Kabalos they took on during Neiloh! And the lucky people that do remember, probably don’t do them anymore.

    Additionally, how can you even take on Kabalos? That would imply that you are less than perfect! And if you are less than perfect, aren’t you anyways going to be the recipient of the Kelalos in Bechukosai?!

    Rav Dessler writes a piece called ‘Nekudas Habechirah’. He says, imagine a guy who is so Frum and holy and special and he has one Nisayon (any Nisayon) and he fails, if he comes from a background where people should know better, than he is worse than a Jewish Mafioso who was brought up in the Mafia, who decides one day to only break the legs of five people instead of his usual ten.

    Because the Mafioso was brought up in a Mafia home, he may have no idea that it is wrong to break people’s legs. So for him to overcome his nature and upbringing and utilize some self control, he maybe greater and closer to Shleimus than the other person who was brought up knowing right and wrong.

    Ok, I feel I’ve trashed your misconceptions about Yiddishkeit enough.

    No one in Kiruv says that you ‘don’t have to keep Shabbos’

    Here is something we might say.

    Ok so you are anyways going to drive on Shabbos, why should that stop you from lighting Shabbos candles! That’s beautiful.

    Just because someone does something wrong or they struggle with Shemiras Hamitzvos, does that mean they can’t make tiny baby steps to come close to Hashem!? Where does it say that only if you keep every single Mitzvah are you worthy and if you can’t keep them all then don’t do anything? It’s garbage. Every little tiny bite sized piece of effort makes you closer to Hashem.

    Ask any woman. She is only interested in a husband that cares. A husband that just buys jewelry and flowers but does not show interest or care about his wife’s needs, his wife will have no joy in anything that he buys.

    So too with God. Only showing care about what He thinks is important, will develope the relationship, just ‘doing’ Mitzvos, doesn’t mean very much to Him at all.

    #886379

    557
    Participant

    Chazal say that someone who forgets something he learned is ‘Keilu mischayev benafsho’

    Chazal say that about someone who forgot stam or someone who forgot because he was negligent? I’ll leave that as an exercise for you.

    Hashem does not ‘need’ anyone’s Mitzvos!

    But we need His mitzvos.

    the Mesilas Yesharim, or as you would call it, the Really-scary-you-are-going-to-Gehinom-Mussar Sefer’ says, Veha’adam Lo Nivrah Elah Lehisanag El Hashem, man was only created to take pleasure in Hashem, and to benefit from His presence for that is the greatest pleasure and truest pleasure greater than any other pleasure in the world!…

    …We were created to have pleasure, to enjoy this world to the max!

    This is incorrect. To see this, read the next sentence in Mesilas Yesharim: u’makom ha’edun ha’gadol hu ha’olam haba (and the place of the great pleasure is the next world). Then the sefer quotes Pirkei Avos saying that this world is a means to get there, and what are those means? The sefer says (drumroll)… hem hamizvos (they are the mitzvos)!

    just ‘doing’ Mitzvos, doesn’t mean very much to Him at all.

    Source?

    (Mods: Why don’t some of my posts get posted? Based on the rules and what has been posted in the various threads, I know it can’t be that my posts are getting rejected. Also, I’ve noticed that in a particular thread the OP and the first few replies, including mine, were deleted. Thanks.)

    #886380

    repharim
    Member

    eh i know what you mean about deleted posts…i make a really well thought-out post and it just gets deleted, very frustrating.

    #886381

    Shticky Guy
    Participant

    Be Happy I love your analogy! We should all be looking for moshiach in every day situations!

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