April 24, 2012 5:12 am at 5:12 am #870563
And no I wasn’t brought up in a sheltered home, we had one of those boxes with a big screen and buttons on the bottom. We also were taught never to start smoking.April 24, 2012 5:22 am at 5:22 am #870564always curiousParticipant
how many roshe yeshivos smokeApril 24, 2012 5:39 am at 5:39 am #870565
That’s a moot point as any R”Y who smokes probably started many years ago before the dangers were so well known.April 24, 2012 6:46 am at 6:46 am #870566Sam2Participant
I don’t understand. If someone is addicted to texting on Shabbos but is really trying to stop would you call him a Ben Torah? Why is smoking different? Everyone has their Nisyonos. I get that. Why does the smoker get off the hook for failing his? The rest of us wouldn’t if we failed ours.April 24, 2012 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #870567yitayningwutParticipant
Why is smoking different? Everyone has their Nisyonos. I get that. Why does the smoker get off the hook for failing his?
For one, here’s a fun fact: Smoking isn’t assur! At least not according to the Roshei Yeshiva of many prominent yeshivos. It might be looked down upon, and you might even disagree with those people who don’t say it is assur; but until BMG, the Mir, Brisk, et al consider it assur, you have a very simple reason why the smoker gets let off the hook while others don’t. Until then, they obviously disagree l’halacha with raboseinu ba’alei hacoffee room.April 24, 2012 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #870568
Parshaman -“Smoking is very addictive. I do not smoke but my Chavrusa does and he is trying to quit but it is not easy. He smokes much less than he used to though, and I would call him a Ben Torah. and Health- Smoking is not comparable to any of those cases,”
And why not? Because movie or alcohol addiction is Not PC in the Frum Yeshivish world, while smoking is.
“but it doesn’t mean that someone who does it is not a Ben Torah, especially those who are trying to quit.”
I’ve posted many times here in the CR that trying to quit would be an excuse acc. to Halacha. But I’ve also posted that almost noone is really trying to quit. Unless the guy is doing a 3-pronged approach to quitting -he isn’t trying to quit!
So you can’t have it both ways – either e/o who has an addiction or a Taava (all the things I mentioned before -eg. watching movies) are considered Bnei Torah or they are not & this includes Smokers!April 24, 2012 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #870569ParshamanMember
There are different levels of Issurim, texting on Shabbos is a different issur than smoking and nobody is perfect not even someone who is a Ben Torah. It seems to me that your definition of Ben Torah is someone who never does an Aveira and never gives in to any Ta’aveh and learns or does Chessed all day. Just because someone has a certain issue doesn;t mean he can’t be a Ben Torah and I don;t think Smoknig is an issue that by itself prevents someone from being a Ben Torah.April 24, 2012 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #870570far eastMember
A lot of you seem to not fully understand the concept of an addiction. You see someone smoking and assume he’s a terrible person because he smokes. The large majority of smokers start smoking when their younger and not mature enough to understand the consequences of their actions. Its called being a teenager and does not in any way show something negative about their upbringing or personality. Unfortunately this is a decision that can effect their entire life. By the time they mature enough to understand the negative consequences of smoking it becomes a LOT harder to quit the mental and physical addiction. Any smoker can tell you about the major anxiety not smoking causes them.
Please don’t judge smokers on decisions they made when they were younger, we’ve all made stupid decisions however only some of them have such lasting effects.April 24, 2012 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #870571writersoulMember
But— and this is the reason why I would NOT marry anyone who smokes— if my husband smokes, it will also put my health and that of our future kids at stake. Second-hand smoke KILLS. A close relative of mine died of emphysema from second-hand smoke.
Unishmartem me’od lenafshoseichem calls for not marrying a boy who smokes— and, of course, not starting to smoke in the first place.April 24, 2012 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #870572
Which Roshei Yeshiva say it’s not assur to start smoking?
I understand the concept of teenagers and addictions so that explains why the Roshei Yeshiva put up with it (and might even do it themselves) but I don’t know of any RY who would say it is muttar to start.April 25, 2012 12:03 am at 12:03 am #870573
yita -“At least not according to the Roshei Yeshiva of many prominent yeshivos.”
I agree with Mod 42. Just because they don’t react to it doesn’t make it Mutter.
This goes to show the confusion people have when it comes to Halacha.
I think a big part is all these Kol Korays. These Kol Korays emphathise certain things and then people think well if they didn’t make a Kol Koray -then it must be Ok.
I don’t believe in Kol Korays or Asifas. I think e/o in life should have a Rov and ask Shailos to him – whatever that comes up.April 25, 2012 2:14 am at 2:14 am #870574far eastMember
It being muttar to start is a moot point. Its in the past and does not reflect on the persons personality now. That being said, of course its understandable to not wanna date a smoker for a million reasons, i personally wouldnt date someone who smokes. But that doesnt make him and am ha’aretz or bad person or anything like that…. just someone who’s struggling with a very public addiction.April 25, 2012 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #870575yitayningwutParticipant
Please. Don’t tell me they hold it’s assur. I am not saying it’s a good thing, and yes, people shouldn’t do it, but not everything is called assur or mutar. I’m not into the whole banning thing. There is a sign up in BMG saying that you may not smoke indoors, and that if smoking bothers someone the smoker is obligated to move. There’s another sign saying bachurim may not have texting or internet on their phones. There’s no sign saying not to smoke. You want to say it’s assur, fine with me. But don’t put it into the mouths of these roshei yeshiva.April 26, 2012 3:17 am at 3:17 am #870576
yitayningwut – Where did you get that we are putting words in their mouthes? I’m sure they don’t have their own opinion. If most Gedolim hold it’s Ossur -I’m sure they don’t argue. You’re the one putting words in their mouthes, not me.
Because they won’t throw s/o out for smoking doesn’t mean they hold it’s fine.April 26, 2012 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #870577BTGuyParticipant
By holding back that kind of information, one is being more than fair to the smoker but not to the other party.
Just equal the scales and tell it like it is, that the person smokes but promises to quit. In this way you are being fair to the other person and honest, but not unfair, to the smoker.
Smoking and promising to quit is not the same status as being a non-smoker, and it should not be pretended to be so or to be thought of in that light.
Speaking of light, anyone have a cigarette? lol Just kidding. I do not smoke.
Good luck, and I hope they quit smoking.
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