May 22, 2023 10:36 am at 10:36 am #2192019
How do people win? Is putting more than one ticket hishtadlus? (I know the last one was one other lottery threads)May 23, 2023 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2192458HaLeiViParticipant
If you believe in the cause, and you don’t mind putting in a second one, why not? If you’re treating it like a lottery, with a tinge of Tzedaka, I think a second ticket has a very small impact. Once your chance of winning is anyhow below 1%, you are depending more on your luck than your chance.May 23, 2023 11:55 am at 11:55 am #2192577
People win because Hashem determined that they should.May 23, 2023 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #2192598
Avirah, are you in favor of supporting Oorah? Are you aware that they have a float in the Celebrate Israel Parade in NYC every year?May 23, 2023 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #2192634commonsaychelParticipant
@Damoshe, I don’t support Oorah because they play the annoying kars for kids jingle, I heard the jingle was used as an instrument of torture at Guantanamo Bay prison.May 23, 2023 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2192647
Da – rav mintz, their daas torah, is openly antizionist. Om recordings, and in his “ask the rabbi” book. Oora is run by Lakewood yeshivaleit, so i doubt that they participate in the parade, alongside toeva and reform groups
But if they did, it could be because their target audience includes mostly israelis and sefardim who identify with israel, and they might get flack if they don’t. It could potentially hurt their kiruv, which is sakanas nefashos.
But that’s assuming it was approved by rav mintz; who knows? Aish does and says many things that rav noach weinberg did not and would not approve of.
I asked rav belsky years ago when deciding to go into teaching if im allowed to work in a school which celebrates 5 Iyar, and he said that there are communities in which it’s impossible to run a school otherwise.
But here it’s worse, because of the aforementioned hischabrus with toeva groups and reformMay 23, 2023 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2192665
I happen to have R’ Mintz’s book, and looked it up. Here is what he writes:
“We should mention that, under the current conditions, where the government has already been created, most authorities maintain that the situation has changed. With the animosity of the Arabs a reality, dismantling the Israeli government would be extremely dangerous. That is why our focus has become to work within the framework of what we have, and try to make the government and the country as religion-friendly as possible.”
This is something I’ve written about before. Many Rabbonim changed their stance once the State was established. The Religious Zionism of today still yearns for the geulah, but also tries to work within the system that exists.May 23, 2023 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #2192666
“I don’t support Oorah because they play the annoying kars for kids jingle, I heard the jingle was used as an instrument of torture at Guantanamo Bay prison.“
There is actually a pearls before swine comic strip about how annoying it isMay 23, 2023 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #2192687Menachem ShmeiParticipant
What you say is interesting.
If you look online, you will also see some lubavitchers at the parade putting tefillin on people, even though the Lubavitcher Rebbe forbade lubavitchers from being anywhere in the proximity even for the purpose of mivtzoim, lest it be seen as giving a hechsher for Zionism, chas v’shalom.May 23, 2023 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #2192737Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
coffee, reading and quoting other religions ls also annoying, even if it is also a comic.May 23, 2023 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #2192736Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
DaMoshe, I also perused the book and do not remember anti-Israeli stance. This is motzi shem ra, even if the poster meant it as a praise.May 23, 2023 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2192696
Da, that was wrenched out of context, and I’m surprised that you cherry picked that one line..i haven’t seen you do that before. I’ve seen you quote out of context when you’re getting information from others, but here you’re plainly ignoring the sentences above what you quoted. He is antizionist and wrote that it was wrong to make a state and that it’s not a Jewish idea – would it have hurt you to quote the entire paragraph?
And he’s not saying that after the fact, that the state is a good thing, or that it has anything whatsoever to do with what religious zionism teaches
He’s saying the majority view(that is, everyone except Hungarian yidden and Yerushalmis) that once the state is made, it’s a Mitzvah to make it as religious friendly as possible, and yes, the millions of jews there would be in danger if the state were suddenly dismantled… He’s just saying the consensus of gedolei yisroel from almost every stream. But the fact that he discusses dismantling it should inform you of what he thinks ideally should happen, absent the dangers it would pose.May 24, 2023 7:01 am at 7:01 am #2192745
I don’t followMay 24, 2023 8:46 am at 8:46 am #2192810
Avira, you missed my point. You can say whatever you want about the formation of the state, but here, today, we should be working with the state. Publicly opposing it all the time and saying how it’s terrible does not accomplish anything except to cause more hatred against frum Jews.May 24, 2023 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2192865
Damoshe, rav mintz was doing just that – he was blasting the state and zionism as an ideology as inherently bad. He didn’t say that once there’s a state we should be quiet about its past to not make us look bad – he said the opposite himself.
No one changed a stance; they were against making it, but they weren’t against working with it should it be made – if that were the case, you could say that the attitude changed. It didn’t; only the metzius changed; now there’s a state – what do we do about it? We work with it from the inside. But we maintain our Torah true ideology and eschew nationalism or the thought that the mamzer child of the marriage between European nationalism and jewish haskalah would ever have a redemptive quality.
Gedolim who endorsed working with the state to a very large extent, including rav shach, who even took the heter further than the chazon ish, saying that things were different then(especially under Begin) – yet he blasted zionism all the time.May 24, 2023 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2192835Sam KleinParticipant
I don’t go for Oorah’s Feivish….. With today’s Biden inflation I go for Oorah’s Franklin’s right out from their amazing camp and kiruv they do and they keep sending it straight over to me.May 30, 2023 11:46 am at 11:46 am #2194022Avram in MDParticipant
“The Religious Zionism of today still yearns for the geulah, but also tries to work within the system that exists”
What does working “within the system that exists” mean, practically?May 30, 2023 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2194056
It means the government that exists in Israel.May 30, 2023 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #2194085Avram in MDParticipant
“It means the government that exists in Israel”
Right, but what does that mean in practice? Most chareidim do work with the Israeli government, but I get the sense that you are not happy with that level of participation.May 30, 2023 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #2194111
Avram, I agree with you, and I don’t have any issues with the level of participation within the government. My issue is with the chareidim who don’t follow the laws.
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