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I keep meeting OOT guys who are more in-towny than in towners. It always makes me wonder where they picked it up from.
To be fair, I’m judging mainly on Jewish OOT–Toronto, LA, etc. Maybe real OOT (suburb/rural) are still it.I keep meeting many many in-towners who have OOT personalities. Most of them have been lifetime in-towners coming from very in-town families.
Is Flatbush now considered out of town? 🙂
Anyone outside of E”Y is OOT, so I don’t understand what you’re complaining about.
Participant
LA and Toronto aren’t really OOT
OOT is like Boston, Nashville, and Detroit
The finest people whom I know are from OOT
It’s because OOT yeshivos and bais yaakovs are being increasingly influenced by in towners who move out from Lakewood and Brooklyn
Avira, agree on school influencing. In older times, it was a natural and welcome influence – sophisticated towners coming and bringing light to farmers, whether in Jewish or general context. Now, note that OOTers are generally people who moved _out_ (or their parents, as most US Jews initially arrived to big cities) for a reason and now “enjoy” their kids being formed by the influence of the crowd they moved away from. (this is gross generalization, of course, not to offend any nice in towners, or deny existence of annoying OOTers, of course)
Avira, statistically, many more OOTers move In-Town than vice versa.
Ujm, agreed, but the fact that there are more out of towners coming in than vice versa doesn’t mean that the influence of in towners is less; they’re often yeshivaleit and bring a lot of Torah with them. There are community kolelim which are usually lakewood talmidim; their kids go to school there, and the community changes. Actually, that’s probably why manu OOT people move to lakewood and NYC, because they want to go to top yeshivos.
Find a guy who was a ski-instructor out West during bein hazmanim or worked on an organic farm raising goats or something out of the mainstream who has moved back to the big city to find his beschert. No guarantee but they are less likely to adopt the “in-town” mindset/hashkafah that you doesn’t turn you on.
GHadorah: You consider being a ski instructor or farming goats to be one of the shpitz highest attainable achievements one can reach in life?
Do these farm boys look for farm girl type shidduchim?
UJM: Any baas yisroel would be thrilled to find an OOT young ben torah who produces the finest quality (goat) cholov yisroel and can teach her to slalom.
Participant,
Were they from Mexico City?
GHadorah: Is it hard for these hillbillies to find a shidduch?
Gadol > Find a guy who was a ski-instructor out West
Indeed. Note that historically most people lived on farms and then moved to “town”. But, in modern America, immigrants mostly arrive to big cities with the ethnic communities and then graduate to suburbs or out West. So, Avira’s assumptions that most people in small towns are country bumpkins who wait for towners to teach them or accumulate funds to buy a bus ticket to NYC is incorrect. It was in-towners who were accumulating funds to pay tolls and gas to cross the bridge from the island into America. I am not saying that one way is better or another, just general direction of movement.
Same is still true: big NE cities grow by immigration. while previous residents move to NJ or FL or TX.
Not really…..in Kentucky, its always been the minhag among the goyim to marry a 15 year second cousin.
Unzere marry a 17 year old first cousin…
AAQ: You’re describing the general American, secular, modern, migration patterns. But it isn’t very applicable or widely true for the Frum American community.
This reminds me of the famous story about the Bais Yaakov convention in Toronto. There was an announcement that all in-town girls should stand up and go to a certain person, so all the Toronto and Flatbush girls got up.
ujm, how are Jewish pattern different here? Are you claiming that Jews lives among Indian tribes first!?
During most migration, most Jews arrived to NY and other big NE ports. There were minor periods when there was migration to small NE towns, and eary on Reformim sponsored Eastern European plebeians to go to Texas not to embarrass them in from of the society. Then, they started moving out of big cities to suburbs and to the rest of America just like the goyim. True, Jews go to NYC for yeshivos and colleges, pick up cheap(er) kosher food, and on the way to EY, but this does not deny the main thread that they (or their parents) previously left the cities. This is _way_ different from Jews in Ukraine Pale who are moving to a big city.
AAQ: The frum community in America has migrated TO in-town cities, rather than away to the suburbs, as the goyim and secular have over the last 75 years. The frum concentrated over the last 50 years to moving into the NYC, Monsey and Lakewood vicinities — whereas the non-Jewish and non-religious Jews moved away from there, to spread out across the country. Even the cities with sizable frum communities have seen, on average, a net outflow from there to the “Big Three” frum population centers I mentioned in my previous sentence.
ujm, you probably using circular logic here: you call “frum” those who live in your community and non-frum those who are not. Then, by your definition, frum move towards your communities. My impression was that the impressive growth of the communities was mostly due to childbirth, not immigration from Deep South and Midwest, but I may be mistaken. In the OOT communities, there is definite in- and out-flows, as everywhere in USA, but I see more, as Avira says, arrivals from the “in towns” into teaching, kollels, colleges, jobs. Those who leave into “in towns” usually have previous connections to those places, or go for learning or Jewish colleges. Others leave to other communities or EY.
“This reminds me of the famous story about the Bais Yaakov convention in Toronto. There was an announcement that all in-town girls should stand up and go to a certain person, so all the Toronto and Flatbush girls got up.”
This is hilarious. When was this? Wish I could have seen it.
Don’t worry @participant, I happen to know many people in Atlanta, I can assure you that they are very out-of-town.
“They barely spoke English. Just Mexican and some Hebrew…”
Participant…..does anyone in Mexico still speak “Mexican”? And is the Hebrew more sephardic or ashkenazic??
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