December 18, 2015 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #616859screwdriverdelightParticipant
1)It seems that often the way a thread gets closed is when someone pipes up that something is inappropriate, and without further ado the thread gets closed.
2)Sometimes threads get closed unexpectedly (not unlike disapproval of certain posts) and then there’s something like this
in which the moderator just got tired of the whole thread. (Perhaps also wary of the direction in which it was headed.)December 18, 2015 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1178268Mashiach AgentMember
speak to one of the mods straight & find out the top reasons why threads get closed
or read through the rules of YWN coffeeroom & see which law was broken.
it seems to me & all my clothing that new threads just don’t stop starting. everyday i find new threads hanging from my clothing. im constantly cutting threads off, i almost need to carry a scissors around with me lolDecember 18, 2015 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1178270MenoParticipant
Mashiach Agent: Well done. I didn’t know you had it in youDecember 20, 2015 6:03 am at 6:03 am #1178271Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
I’m surprised this thread is still open. Notice another perfect example is the College thread that was just closed. While threads full of lashon hara and personal attacks are allowed to thrive, sometimes completely peaceful debates are closed inexplicably. YWN mods act in mysterious ways, but we still must abide by their commandments…September 9, 2016 3:58 am at 3:58 am #1178272HappygirlygirlMember
I like this threadSeptember 9, 2016 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1178273
What I don’t get is the following: Sometimes I write a post to the Moderators that a particular thread is Motzi Shem Ra and should be deleted or closed and they just ignore me and delete my post. But other times, posters will post to the oilam that they think a thread should be closed and then they close it.
Is that the way to get a thread closed – by posting to the oilam and not to the moderators?
And why is it that they sometimes delete or close motzi shem ra threads but not others?September 9, 2016 4:15 am at 4:15 am #1178275
Maybe they view things differently than you. Maybe the have someone of Halachaik Authority guiding them what is & what’s not. What must be closed, what’s to be removed, etc. No, don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Mod or on anyway affiliated, just sayinSeptember 9, 2016 4:37 am at 4:37 am #1178277
LF – I responded to your post, but the moderators deleted it.September 9, 2016 4:49 am at 4:49 am #1178278
<<DELETED>> <<UNDELETED>> I see you did get through.
ps. Happy times are coming… cheer up! (suggested, not required)September 9, 2016 5:29 am at 5:29 am #1178280
<<DELETED>> <<UNDELETED>> I see you did get through.
“ps. Happy times are coming… cheer up! (suggested, not required)”
I am happy, but all the Motzi Shem ra really upsets me! I wish people would “chop” the damage they are causing!!! Would you be happy if you saw babies being murdered in front of your face????September 9, 2016 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1178282
With that belief, what would be the heter for continuing to read and post?September 9, 2016 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1178283MenoParticipant
I am so confusedSeptember 9, 2016 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1178284
I B”H have no idea what you’re talking (actually writing) about. Motzi Shem? Maybe I’m like the Chofetz Chaim who worked on himself and conditioned his ears and was not to ABLE to hear Lashon Hara. I’ve not seen anything wrong here. Mods are doing a fantastic job at that.
(Mods – lolly please)September 9, 2016 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1178285
About what are you confused?September 9, 2016 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1178286
LF, I don’t do lollies for sarcasm. You have to really mean it. Sorry.September 9, 2016 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1178287
29, obviously you’re relatively new here. I’m generally sincere. It is true, there was a period of time, a dark period here I wasn’t ‘quite fond’ of my treatment here, I think it was way before your times here. I think they’re (you included!) doing a fantastic job now!!
And before I forget
THANK YOU, MODSSeptember 9, 2016 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #11782882scentsParticipant
Putting the rules aside for a moment, most or some of us were already in the position be being in the know of something that went public, yet the intimate details were not known to the public.
With just two seconds of thinking, (if that at all..) posters submit their opinions, which at times can be very hurtful and non-deserving to the people involved.
Thank you mods for editing and closing threads according to what they see as appropriate.September 11, 2016 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1178289
29- glad you asked. It’s actually a chiyuv, not a heter. If you can prevent someone from speaking motzi shem ra, you have a chiyuv to do so. Since I know you are a tzadeikis who usually deletes motzi shem ra when it is pointed out, I have a chiyuv to do so (well actually, even if you weren’t a tzadeikis, I would still have a chiyuv to point it out.)
btw, I have asked a sheilah about this and I was told that I have a chiyuv to comment when Motzi Shem Ra is written, which is why I do it, even though it is very difficult for me and acting against my nature.September 11, 2016 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #1178290Person1Member
LU you are right that it’s bad to spread lies about frum communities (this is what you posted your Mechoe on) but it’s equally bad to spread lies and dehumanize secular and non-charedi communities. You mentioned that you live in E”Y, so you probably know that certain frum newspapers, purportedly supervised by Gdoley Yisrael, are doing just that (spreading lies) and They have been at it for decades. Please be moche on that too. My rav was and I respect him greatly for that.September 11, 2016 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1178291
Person1- it’s wonderful that you want to do something about stopping motzi shem ra, but I think your post is (inadvertant) motzi shem ra. You have to be EXTREMELY careful about what you post online. Everything that is written here can be and is read by the entire world, and it stays forever (or at least until the Moderators delete it if they do, but even then, it could have been copied and pasted m/w). That is why the Internet is so dangerous, and why we have to be so EXCEEDINGLY careful about what we write online.
I once heard a shiur on this topic (can’t remember from who, but it was someone well-known – it was some kind of teleconference Yom Iyun on Shmiras Halashon). The Rav was talking about how being a baal lashon hara is one of the worst aveiros; it is one of the few things you lose your cheilik in Olam Haba for permanently! Before Internet, it wasn’t so easy to be a baal loshon hara, but now it is very hard NOT to be.
Anything you write online can be read by the ENTIRE WORLD in seconds. It is particularly bad to speak about a group and really bad to speak about all of Am Yisrael. It is REALLY bad to speak about Gedolei Yisrael! It is also REALLY bad to speak about the Frum community (in particular) to goyim or secular Jews, and that is what people are doing when they speak badly about the Frum community online. By writing the above post, although it may have been unintentional, that IS what you just did.
I understand that you are really upset by the things you read and you felt that there was a toeles in this, but that is not the case. Mesira (I think that’s the halachic term for this) is a really big aveira and is not justified in this case. Also, if the problem really exists (which I am not mekabel), this is not the way to solve it. Write a letter yourself if you have seen such things. Telling others about it is just increasing motzi shem ra. I was NEVER told that I was allowed to spread any loshon hara I saw in the newspapers; I was simply told that I should write to the editors of the newspaper in question.
In terms of the specific issue that you are referring to, I actually don’t know what you are talking about. I don’t read Israeli newspapers and I haven’t read any newspaper in a while. If you really think there is a problem, you should definitely write to the editors, but you should think carefully first about whether or not there really is a problem, and you should be careful how you phrase it. You certainly should not be spreading motzi shem ra about the Frum world by announcing this issue (whether or not it really exists) to anyone but the perpetrators.
In general, Frum newspapers do try to be exceedingly careful about Loshon Hara issues, and they general do act according to Daas Torah. Of course, they make mistakes at time, as is the nature of newspapers, and that is why it is important to point it out to them if they did so. But this should be done from the perspective that you are assuming that it was an error, etc. Also, you should examine the context carefully – context makes all the difference, and often, something that seems like l”h really isn’t because of the context and vice versa.
Yasher koach on your efforts!September 11, 2016 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1178292Person1Member
I appreciate everything you say, and I appreciate your good intentions. At the same time you make it impposible for me to answer you. Anything I might say is lashon ara by your standards, and I have no reason to make you read things you don’t want to read. I suppose you let people talk more freely in real life, otherwise I don’t see how you’re getting at the truth.
I’d also like to note that it’s not very reasonable to make a discussion where you say that something is lashon ara and then make the sweeping opposite statement. ALL people in kolel except a tiniest minority are great masmidim. ALL frum people are VERY careful about gezel. Newspapers are VERY careful about lashon ara. The last three statement are to my opinion and knowladge partial or complete lies (I know you think they aren’t) I think it’s only fair that if you make it impposible for the other side to make their case, that you refrain from making one-sided arguments.
The only thing that I agree with you completely about is that the internet is a very dangerous place to criticise frum people in. I do think though, that if a certain newspaper spread lies you should let people know about that so they aren’t influenced. If it’s ok to say that the music of a certain singer (say Lipa) is asur, it should ok to say that a newspaper is asur. Newspapers have much greater influence than any singer could ever hope to have.
What I actually tried to convey in my previous messages was that you should be equally careful about Hotzaas Shem Ra about other groups and communities. Some frum people aren’t.September 11, 2016 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #1178294
Person1, agreed that you have to be careful about loshon hara about everyone. However, there is a particular problem with speaking badly about the Frum oilam to the Secular or not-Jewish oilam. Everything you write online is being said to the Secular or not-Jewish oilam. Most of the above statements that you quoted from me were said in response to generalizations that had been made putting down the Frum oilam or those who learn Torah.
I have noticed that often posters in the coffee room do not realize the connotations of what they are saying and how it can be heard by the general oilam. It’s all about the context and the way things are phrased. One problem that often comes up is that people lose sight of the context in these threads.
It’s not that everyone is perfect and it’s not that we shouldn’t be trying to work on ourselves. It’s a question of how, where, why, when and to whom things should be said.
I understand that you want to raise awareness of this issue, and you are right. But it has to be done the right way. The way you phrased things and the medium you chose were seriously problematic. And yes, you do have to be dan l’kaf zchus and assume that the newspapers mean well and it was an occasional slip-up and if someone says something to them, they will correct it. If you don’t feel that way, then you should certainly not say anything, since it certainly has no toeles.
And no, I do not think you have a right to post online that Lipa’s music is assur. There are halachos about when Lashon hara can be said l’toeles, and there are many, many conditions! One of the biggest stumbling blocks for loshon hara is the fact that people use “toeles” as an excuse too often! If you seriously think there was a toeles in what you wrote about Lipa or about the Frum newspapers, call the Shmiras Halashon hotline and ask them!! Loshon hara is a very serious issue, especially online, and you can’t say things like that without asking first!! And you have to make sure that you ask experts in the topic and that you tell them exactly what you wrote!!
“What I actually tried to convey in my previous messages was that you should be equally careful about Hotzaas Shem Ra about other groups and communities. Some frum people aren’t.’
The way you phrased it now was probably okay. The way it was phrased before was very different and it gave a very different message (although knowing you, I’m sure it was completely unintentional.)
I do think thought that it is kidai for you to go back and look at the examples you are talking about and see if it’s possible that they had a reason for writing what they did. It is POSSIBLE that it was written in the context of defending the Frum world against attacks by the not-Frum world. I’m not saying that was necessarily the case, but it is a definite possibility. If you think that was not the case, you should definitely write to them.
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