July 20, 2009 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #590062
Disclaimer: This has absolutely nothing to do with the horrific accident in Woodridge where a Yeshiva Bachur, R”L lost his life. It is not written in response to the accident, nor does it imply in any way that the occupants of the car would doing anything reckless or illegal. I considered writing this last Monday but held off from doing so. The events described below are what compelled me to write this, nothing more, nothing less. Lastly, this does not imply that what is described below is unique to our communities, however, it is far too rampant and causes way too many Chillul Hashem’s that I have chosen to write this.
Dear Aggressive Driver who is easily identified as a Yid.
Please be aware that your aggressive and often illegal driving, besides posing a danger to yourself and the other drivers on the road, causes a massive Chillul Hashem.
To the driver on Route 17 Eastbound near exit 114 who last Monday morning around 8:45 caused a non Jewish driver to give him the “finger” for aggressive tailgaiting. Was it worth it?
To the driver this on Heiden Rd on the way to Rt 17, at 5am this morning, obnoxiously tailgaiting a driver doing 50MPH in a 45 MPH zone, repeatedly flashing your high beams,
to “encourage” him/her to go faster earning a look of disgust when you finally zoomed past at 80MPH once we all entered Rt 17.
To the driver on Rt 42 yesterday afternoon who felt it proper to pick up someone hitching near the Four Corners by coming to a stop in the MIDDLE OF THE ROAD causing numerous cars behind you to suddenly come to a stop, because you did so with no prior warning.
To all drivers who feel the need in any situation to honk, tailgate, illegally pass from the opposite side of the road or otherwise create a dangerous situation.
(I am purposely ignoring the many examples that could be written that occur in predominantly yiddish areas.)
What were you thinking?
Please understand that your actions cause a massive chillul hashem. Are we to be proud that the Sullivan County “locals” routinely refer to RT 17 as the “Hasid 500” (I heard it several times called it by locals, as have acquaintences of mine). If you dont care about your own safety, the safety of your passengers or the drivers who share the road with you, at the very least, please care about the massive chillul hashem that you perpetuate each and every time you do something that is aggressive, dangerous and illegal.
To those who believe “they do it too”, why single “us” out of the general population Mr. Jphone (and all the self hating Jew invectives that are sure to follow from some of the more responsible YWN bloggers), I say, we understand the possibilities for harm that can come from traveling, so much so, that chazal have established Tefillas Haderech. We all say Tefillas Haderech when appropriate, are you immune to what we are saying? Do you believe Tefillas Haderech is some sort of Kamaya that once said, provides an automatic shemira from anything stupid you may do behind the wheel? I say that we should be aware that everything we do is scrutinized by the rest of the population (like it or not). they are not concerned about creating a chilul hashem. We should be.
All I ask is, please think of everyone else, before you do something stupid behind the wheel, you obviously don’t care about yourself.July 20, 2009 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #650976
Jphone, has the driving got more aggressive in the last week and a half?July 20, 2009 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #650977
No. There are simply more drivers and way more chillul Hashems. A single chillul Hashem is too many, on a 90 minute drive I am unfortunately witness to dozens.
Are we proud of our driving on the “Hasid 500”?July 20, 2009 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #650978oomisParticipant
In my neighborhood today, my son was driving us home from various errands and we were going down a main avenue at the posted speed. All of a sudden, a car started to quickly leave the curb as we were passing , without signaling and in what was clearly an attempt to make a (very illegal) U-turn. The No U-turn signs are posted everywhere, because the street has SO much traffic that a U-Turn is never a safe option. The driver was a Jew, not American born, and the only thing that stopped him from opening his mouth and cursing at us (he almost broadsided me, and I would have been toast), was probably the fact that he KNEW he was totally in the wrong and had he hit us, he would have had a major lawsuit and moving violations. He glared at us, but kept silent.
It is not only a Chilul Hashem. That would be “dayeinu.” Mortal accidents are caused by aggression on the road, by the “me-first” attitude, and by people who think the rules of the road, like the Ten Commandments, are only suggestions.July 20, 2009 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #650979Darchei NoamMember
jphone, I appreciate your letter but take exception to your references to the hasid 500. The only folks who differentiate between different types of Jews, are Jews ashamed of themselves. A non-Jew almost will never differentiate between a hasid, a litvak, or even orthodox. If you said they called it the Jew 500 it might have been credible. The only people who would call it what you referenced, are the type of Jews who post on the Herald-Tribune websites comment section.July 20, 2009 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #650980
Music is a well known tool for calming aggressive drivers.
I know it is the 3 weeks, but the prohibition of aggressive driving is much more severe than the prohibition of music.July 21, 2009 1:33 am at 1:33 am #650981yoshiMember
jphone- Thank you so much for starting this thread.
The amount of terrible driving is increasing every day. But, when it’s a Jewish person, it is very embarrassing. Then to blatantly cut of, tail gate, etc. a fellow Jew, and the horrible gestures and language getting shouted out, even when they are in the wrong.
An example of one Jew not showing brotherhood to another fellow Jew, and breaking many traffic laws. A couple saturday nights ago, not too long after shul let out after shabbos ended. There is a street where the main shul is located, where people are darting left and right through the streets, where cars from the side streets, and on road parking spaces are darting into the roadway. Where the speed limit there is 35 mph, not to mention how dark that road is.
We were going 35 mph which is not only safe, but the law, when a car started tailgating us and flashing their lights. Suddenly they went on the OTHER side of the double lined (illegal passing zone) went around us, and passed us up, and zoomed down the rest of the block, probably going nearly double the speed limit.
Please think before acting. There is no reason to rush to the point where lives are at stake. There are enough tragedies going on around the world. Why add just another one?July 21, 2009 3:27 am at 3:27 am #650982bein_hasdorimParticipant
jphone: thanks for bringing this to the public, it’s terrible when
it happens all year round, however in the three weeks people should be 3 times
as careful, as these times tend to bring tragedy with them.
Agressive drivers out there: bad habits are hard to break,
that means everytime you get in the drivers seat, you’re gambling
with your life, your passengers lives & everyone else on the road!
Be Calm! Be Careful! & Be aware of your surroundings!
May we have no more tragedies, & no more Chillul Hashem!July 21, 2009 3:38 am at 3:38 am #650983
Bein hasdorim: amen!
And what’s with people passing on squankum?? Its so dangerous!!July 21, 2009 3:45 am at 3:45 am #650984bein_hasdorimParticipant
shaatra: maybe we should start posting, black lexus license plate Exl..
passing on squankum monday nite @ 9:30 etc.. 🙂July 21, 2009 4:29 am at 4:29 am #650985
Hahahaha yeah we should! I only drive there once in a blue moon though, when I have to go to lakewood 🙂July 21, 2009 4:49 am at 4:49 am #650986JaxMember
jphone: very well written letter! thanks for bringing such an important issue out here! things gatta change on the roads!July 21, 2009 6:04 am at 6:04 am #650987HaQerMember
Why are people in such a rush anyway? How much time do people actually save by driving aggressively? Someone should do a study, find the average commute time from point a to point B of a certain aggressive driver and then have them try driving unaggressively and and time that. Will it really be that much slower?July 21, 2009 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #650988SJSinNYCMember
Darchei Noam, a lot of non-Jews refer to all orthodox Jews as Hasid. They don’t know the difference really.July 21, 2009 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #650989
What practical steps can we take to be calmer drivers?July 21, 2009 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #650990
Josh, read YW comments prior to getting behind the wheel?July 21, 2009 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #650991
I have a great idea for everyone! Move out of town! We don’t have so many aggresive drivers here!July 21, 2009 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #650992mdlevineMember
is the issue that people feel that the savings outweigh the risks?
I do not remember the exact formula but if I recall correctly, the savings is very small compared to the risk. if a person is going 100 miles at 85 MPH it will take the person about 70 minutes, at 75 MPH it will take about 80 minutes and at 65 MPH it will take about 90 minutes.
so to drive in excessive speed with all conditions be constant, the savings on a long trip (100 miles) are not that significant compared to the risk of being late, a ticket or Chas V’Shalom much, much worse. On a small trip to the store you are out of the minutes range and into the the at most several seconds range.
We need to remember that if we do get pulled over (or Chas V’Shalom worse) those few mnutes of savings can turn into at best a monetary and minimal time loss to at worst a real loss.
years ago a co-worker told me that he got pulled over late one night for speeding, the cop did not give a ticket instead he said to him: how are YOU going to tell THEM (the kids in the back) to drive in a responsible manner when THEY would rather follow YOUR exampleJuly 21, 2009 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #650993
Josh31 – “Music is a well known tool for calming aggressive drivers.
I know it is the 3 weeks, but the prohibition of aggressive driving is much more severe than the prohibition of music.”
There is a heter to listen to music while driving if that is going to keep you more alert.
jphone – I couldn’t agree with you more and I hope this thread has a toi’eles in that someone reading it will think twice; “is a life really worth the extra few minutes I might save?”.July 21, 2009 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #650995Darchei NoamMember
cherrybim: Is that an open heter applicable to everyone. Or was it made to the person who asked the shaila when it was issued?July 21, 2009 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #650996
When it comes to “pikiach nefesh”, I wouldn’t start “clairing shailos”. But to answer your question, the statement was made in a shiur to all those in attendance.
By the way, as mentioned in another thread, Rav Moshe ZT”L held that music was assur all year long excluding for a seudas mitzva. However, he said, there is a heter now since we are nervous in today’s times and need music for the calming factor.July 22, 2009 2:18 am at 2:18 am #650997
Postsemgirl: if they move out of town then u WILL have aggressive drivers by u, get it? 🙂July 22, 2009 5:40 am at 5:40 am #650998yankdownunderMember
Now we are in the nine days please be careful driving, maybe even say Tefilah Ha Derech when traveling.July 22, 2009 5:47 am at 5:47 am #650999
Shaatra: Yea I guess you’re right. But maybe they will learn how to calm down here when they see that there are others who are not like them. Also my advise was also for people who are not aggresive and wish to get away from those who are. But really I was just trying to point out the fact that in out of town cities we don’t feel the need to be at 5 places at once and so we don’t need to feel like we own the roads. Hey look at that we still manage to have fulfilling lives! 🙂July 22, 2009 5:49 am at 5:49 am #651000
yankdownunder: Ever since I got into a minor accident while I was driving, I alway say a perek of Tehilim as I turn on my car. Baruch Hashem it has been almost a year and I have Baruch Hashem not been in any accidents!July 22, 2009 6:44 am at 6:44 am #651001yankdownunderMember
postsemgirl- Let the Merit of Dovid Ha Melech’s Tehilim help protect Yiddin.July 22, 2009 10:05 am at 10:05 am #651002Be HappyParticipant
We have to do our hishtadlus. I had a sem teacher who always said better 10 mins late than 50 years early in olam habo.
I hope no one ever has to live with the thoughts “IF ONLY i was more careful, slowed down etc.July 22, 2009 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #651003JotharMember
From another website:
Jerusalem – Three weeks ago a bochur yeshiva without a drivers’ license caused a dreadful car accident on the Ramot Road. Now another bochur was caught with the same irresponsible behavior. In preparation for his trial and out of fear that he might be sentenced to prison, the bochur decided to seek a blessing from Rav Chaim Kanievsky.
After VIN News verified that accuracy of the exchange, we are bringing the recording of the conversation between them as a service for the public:
Bochur: I have a trial in another week. They want to put me in prison. Would the rav please bless me so I’ll be saved from it.
Rav Chaim: What is the trial about?
Bochur: They caught me driving without a license, after I crashed into a wall.
Rav Chaim: So you’re mamash a murderer! Adaraba, let them put you in prison. Very good.
Bochur (shouts) What? Chalila, I didn’t kill anyone. I didn’t wound anyone either. I just had a small accident with a wall involving only myself.
Rav Chaim: But you drove without a license, right?
Rav Chaim: Nu, so you’re considered a real murderer. You could have caused an accident with people too.
Bochur: But I know how to drive well. Besides that, [being in prison] might ruin things for me with shidduchim and yeshiva.
Rav Chaim: There’s no such things as “I know”. Without a license, one doesn’t know how to drive. Concerning shidduchim, whoever doesn’t want you is right. It’s dangerous.
Bochur: I’m mamash sorry. Just let the rav bless me that I be saved in the trial.
Rav Chaim: What do you mean, you’re sorry? If you’re given a car tomorrow you won’t travel? For sure you’ll travel. So the best thing is for you to sit in prison and learn not to be a murderer.
Bochur: Please, will the rav promise that I’ll be saved if I’ll be careful from now on?
Rav Chaim: I can’t give a blessing. May Hashem help that they sentence you to what will really be good for you.
Rav Chaim’s family says that it’s rare that Rav Chaim speaks in such extreme language, but this is how he views a person who is caught breaking traffic rules or who drives without a license. Rav Chaim will refuse to bless him and doesn’t hesitate to say that it involves no less than “murder.”July 22, 2009 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #651004
Jothar, the website you quoted is one of lies and inneuendo, published by self-hating Jews. I have no doubt the exchange they published is pure fiction.July 22, 2009 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #651005JotharMember
Joseph, YWN is now reporting the same story.July 22, 2009 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #651006
Joseph: What’s so terrible or unbelievable about the story message; how would you have liked the ending?July 22, 2009 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #651007
Darchei: “hasid” is probably a term that is a synonym for, jew with a beard, peyos and yarmulka to many of the sullivan county non jews.
I certainly did not imply anything with the use of the word.July 23, 2009 12:05 am at 12:05 am #651008
My objection, as noted, was to the source quoted above. (Which in this case purported to have a recorded line by line transcript with additional details.) That site is wholey unreliable.July 23, 2009 1:46 am at 1:46 am #651009
The YWN reporter of this story references the source as “Charedim”. Who or what is that, and who is behind it?July 23, 2009 8:01 am at 8:01 am #651010
ok public apology. I guess when i posted the first time i wasn’t in the company of unsafe drivers as our community is more chilled out.
I was driving today and i noticed a van V-E-R-Y close to the back of my car. We were doing 35 or so and i was NOT happy with the situation. One small stop…
Anyways, i assumed the driver wasn’t paying attention for a moment and didn’t realize how close we were. I kept looking- no improvement.
Ok, I’m really getting very nervous. We are so close, that even if i slow down a drop…
I realized he might not know how close we are so a slowwed down for a second lightly, this way he’ll see how fast he’ll have to break and understand how dangerous he’s driving.
I did, and he was so close, he had to swerve! But still no improvement.
I stopped at the red light and opened my door and motioned with my hands, that if he could please give me a little room.
the rest of what happened is not for mentioning, but please!
DRIVE SAFELY!July 23, 2009 8:04 am at 8:04 am #651011
on the reverse side…
I have often observed mothers pushing strollers, crossing the street. The red hand is on, but it appears as if no cars are coming.
Just to make sure they walk a little bit into the street to check…
Do you realize you are pushing a carriage with a baby inside??
That means, that not only are you risking your own life, but the baby’s, AND FIRST!!?!July 23, 2009 8:26 am at 8:26 am #651012JayMatt19Participant
Rule #1: If there is a car behind you making you feel uncomfortable, let them pass you.
Rule #2: NEVER LEAVE YOUR CARJuly 23, 2009 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #651013
Jaymatt19- you’re right… although it was a narrow street, only one car at a time and no place to pull overJuly 24, 2009 12:10 am at 12:10 am #651014
Just a note to say that I almost got killed today by an agressive driver! It was quite scary!July 24, 2009 4:14 am at 4:14 am #651015oomisParticipant
Just a note to say that I almost got killed today by an agressive driver! It was quite scary!”
WHAAAAAAAAT?????? Are you OK? B”H you are here to post about it.July 24, 2009 5:30 am at 5:30 am #651016
Baruch Hashem I am ok. It was really scary though. I guess I wasn’t going fast enough for him (I am not a slow driver, by the way)so first he was flashing me with his lights and was getting dangerously close to the back of my car, he swerved around almost smashing into me and the car next to me and he rode next to me for a while. He was screaming and cursing at me (Not a Jewish person). I was petrified and I started saying Tehilim. Then he zoomed off.
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