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There is a new amusement place in the Palisades Center named Fun City. They have an add in the local Monsey add paper that the pizza there is Cholov Yisroel and Pas Yisroel under the supervision of Rav Asher Schechter. They neglect to mention that the entire place including the pizza is open on Shabbos and Yom Tov! I went in there and the workers told me that. I also called a few days latter just to verify. I am not saying that some rabbi can’t call it kosher – just that people should have this information before they decide that they want to eat from this hechsher. Also, in their add they don’t even put their web site, just a gmail address, but if you google them and go their web site, it doesn’t even have their hours of operation!?!?!?
This mall is not in Nebraska, it is a short drive to Monsey with many pizza stores that are closed on Shabbos.
If the store is owned by non-Jews, it’s not a problem. Dunkin Donuts has many kosher locations. Carvel had (has?) chalav Yisrael locations in Brooklyn, and they were open on Shabbos.
MM:
I’m not sure what bothers you so much. It is standard in the hashgacha industry to have stores open on shabbos, when they are not owned by jews.
Some hashgachos don’t do this, but many do. For instance, all the kosher dunkin donuts are open on shabbos. Coca Cola, Pepsi Tropicana, and most packaged food you buy are open on shabbos.
Why is this upsetting you?
who cares? im assuming that the park is owned and operated by goyim. the concession stand is all that matters. if THATS open on shabbos then you have problems. otherwise…? who cares?
idk…well…is the concession stand split? liek do they sell kosher and non kosher and only non kosher on shabbos?
Can the mashgiach walk over on shabbos?
are you sure it is owned by a goy?? i understand it owned by a yid… does anyone know for certain??
Feif Un; The only Carvel in all America that was Cholov Yisroel, was the one on 18th Avenue years ago, when the Tress brother’s bought it. It is now a Sprinkles.
mm- whats the shaychis? its not jewish owned.
Dunkin Donuts is really a restaurant, besides Donuts they make EGGS and Hash Browns that they cook on demand
Is there a din of donut or pizza shenisalem min hayain that concerns some? So, they are open on shabbos. The Rav Hamachshir presumably is aware of this fact.
Not every Rav Hamachshir or kashrus agency will give a hechsher on anyone open for business on shabbos, however, many legitimate ones do.
Lastly, Monsey Mom, if you have concerns regarding the kashrus, contact the Rav Hamachshir, surely the establishment has contact information for him. Why post this on YWN, what do you hope to gain from giving over this information?
Shaychis is that a store that is open on shabbos is 1. harder to police from a kashrus point of view, as stuff can happen without the mashgiach knowing about it. also, pizza on motzei shabbos may be forbidden until a certain point in time after shabbos. The dunkin donuts in Far rockaway has a sign explicitly stating this.
The problem is a legitimate one of poretz geder, as the frum community in NY/NJ has successfully upgraded it’s kashrus standards in recent times so that kosher restaurants that are non-shomer shabbos are the rare exception even those owned by goyim! (I can point out many examples of the latter particularly in Manhattan.) This is to my mind a wonderful development as it highlights the holistic nature of yiddishkeit rather than the pick a mitzvah approach after all what is kashrus without Shabbos and Yom Tov and 613 Torah Avenue?
Monsey Mom:
You seem very upset about this.
What upsets you about it? I don’t think they or the hashgacha were trying to fool you, or hide this.
Again, there are issues with it, and some hashgachos won’t allow it, but many will. It seems like a purely halachic question to me.
I’m sure we can compile you a list of hashgachos with this policy, and if you want to stop eating them, you can. You may find yourself a bit constrained, but I’m sure you’ll survive. They didn’t have pizza shops in Krakow.
Any concerns with a hashgacha should be aired with the rav hamachshir first, not the coffee room. If the answers of the rav hamachshir dont sit well with you, (or even if they do), speak to your own Rav, not the coffee room. The Chaf K is a sponsor of the CC Heritage Foundation Tisha Bav Shmiras Halashon videos and their tag line is be as careful with what comes out of your mouth as what goes in. Was the Rav Hamachshir contacted? Did you consult your own Rav?
Wait a second, NO Pizza shops in Krakow? Was there at least a Sushi place?
Hey, in Krakow they bought from the goyim without a kasrus organization giving a hasgacha…
Not that this has so much shayachus, but I have always felt Kashrus Organizations should not give hashgachos to restaurants with loud (booming) non-Jewish music and improperly dressed waitresses.
Chacham; improperly dressed waiters? or waitresses? I have yet to see imroperly dresses waiters.
Do you want the Chinese and African -American waiters to wear borsalinos, and shiny blazers?
Chacham vote with your feet by not eating at those places and also letting them know and the hechsher as well, it will sometimes get results, most kosher restaurant owners want to please their customers and their Rabbis, and there is a lot of competition so they do need to be reminded of the borders of what the community needs. Some hechshers may not comment on non kashrus issues but others will.
Kashrus (as in the word kosher) is more than what goes into your mouth.
“There is a new amusement place in the Palisades Center named Fun City.”
The mall is open on shabbos. How is this Poretz Geder? Is this store open on “main st.” In Monsey?
” They have an add in the local Monsey add paper that the pizza there is Cholov Yisroel and Pas Yisroel under the supervision of Rav Asher Schechter.”
Those who have concerns, can call Rav Schechter and see if/how he addresses them.
MM: Did your Rav speak to Rav Schechter? The store owner? Do you truly believe that that either Rav Schechter (I know neither and have never heard of this Rav, until this thread) or the store are deliberately concealing that they are either owned by non jews and/or open on Shabbos?
The problem is a legitimate one of poretz geder, as the frum community in NY/NJ has successfully upgraded it’s kashrus standards in recent times so that kosher restaurants that are non-shomer shabbos are the rare exception even those owned by goyim! (I can point out many examples of the latter particularly in Manhattan.) This is to my mind a wonderful development as it highlights the holistic nature of yiddishkeit rather than the pick a mitzvah approach after all what is kashrus without Shabbos and Yom Tov and 613 Torah Avenue?
Where is there poretz geder? If a non-jewish establishment wants to stay open on shabbos and the Rav Hamachshir determines that even on shabbos he can provide the halachic mandated level of supervision, there is no problem.
The only thing I had to gain from the post was informing people of the facts, so that they could make an intelligent decision.
I assume you mean so they could ask their rav?
Did you ask your rav if you should eat there? Did he say you shouldn’t?
Given that it involves cooking and complex ingredients (assuming they are preparing the pizza, not merely reheating frozen pizza in a kosher only microwave), I doubt anyone serious about kashrut will trust them. Duncan doughnuts involves much simpler ingredients and less complexity.
To pba – Of course people may ask their Rav if they want to do so. For myself and many others, (probably after talking with someone with knowledge of hashgochas) we can make our own decisions if we want to eat in a place that is open Shabbos.
Yes, I gathered it was more of an emotional thing.
Do you think you can explain what exactly the feeling is?
(Also, I’m assuming this store is not owned by jews, because if it is, you should probably not be trying to convince people to not patronize them based on your emotional reasons.)
“I doubt anyone serious about kashrut will trust them.”
Akuperma. I doubt you meant to cast aspersions on the Rav Hamachshir, but you did. HE obviously trusts them.
popa: If the store is owned by Jews and is open on Shabbos, there is even more reason to not patronize them.
JMO
If the store IS owned by Non-Jews , DOES have a valid Hasghcha and it opened on Shabbos
You should NOT be convincing people not to go there, it is a terrible Chillul Hashem if you do. The owners are trying to reach out to the jewish community and want your business.
If you personally dont want to go there that is fine, but do not make a public issue
How can pas yisroel be guaranteed on Shabbos? What do they do if the oven goes out? That is what I would ask this rov. In any case, pizza should be BISHUL Yisroel and again, if the ovens go out, what happens?
We do eat pas yisroel products where an automatic oven was started by a Yid at the beginning of the run, but I don’t know if those plants run their pas yisroel on Shabbos and YT as well. Rabbi Levy of the OK has expanded pas yisroel by putting proper practices into place for automated lines that are run by major firms, but I don’t know anything about the details. I also think that his “Pas Yisroel program” is mainly for very simple products where little human intervention is needed once the machine starts.
However, stopping kashrus fraud or even making people aware of low standards is a great kiddush Hashem, regardless of whether the perpetrator is a Yid or a goy. Unmasking unreliable hechsherim is also a mitzvah and those who give dubious hechsherim are machshil es harabim. I was asked about a “rav” ha “machshir” in Manhattan by a former neighbor in Brooklyn who just didn’t know what goes on in Manhattan with con-servative level hashgochos handed out by “orthodox” rabbis but fortunately knew enough to ask.
If the owners realize they made a mistake, they could just as soon rent that part of the operation to a kosher Yid. That would mean one more Yid with a good parnossoh and the ability to help others. I think a lot of Monsey residents would be uncomfortable, as I would be, with a rov they never heard of giving hashgocho to a place open on Shabbos. I also don’t think non-Jews would care to eat kosher pizza in a mall that undoubtedly has other food options.
Please re-read what I wrote
DOES have a valid Hasghcha
If the Hasshcha isnt good then dont eat there, I am only referring to IF the Hashchaha is good
“How can pas yisroel be guaranteed on Shabbos?”
I’m not so sure, those ordering pizza on shabbos are overly concerned about this.
“Unmasking unreliable hechsherim is also a mitzvah and those who give dubious hechsherim are machshil es harabim.”
Are you implying this is the case in this particular instance?
To the OP:
“There is a new amusement place in the Palisades Center named Fun City. They have an add in the local Monsey add paper that the pizza there is Cholov Yisroel and Pas Yisroel under the supervision of Rav Asher Schechter.”
Please reread the ad, and then reread your opening statement. Does the ad claim the pizza is under the hecsher of Rav Schechter or does the ad state they have a kosher concession stand that sells kosher pizza that is pas yisroel and that the concession stand is under the supervision of Rav Schechter. It should not take a Pinkerton detective to figure this out.
Then, please answer if the KOSHER concession stand is open on shabbos, OR is Fun City open for business on shabbos and selling concessions from its NON Kosher concession stand where no kashrus claims are made. If the KOSHER concession stand is open on shabbos, please tell us how you know this?
In Disney World, Certain restaurants there serve Kosher food, Its Airline food double wrapped and you have to ask for it.
In Animal Kingdom its Pizza, Its double wrapped Airline food Pizza.
Its Frozen (Not Fresh Pizza) and the workers there just heat it up for you
Could it be thats what is served here?
Bezalel: The geder is not giving hashgocha to restaurants open Shabbos and Yom Tov, and I am talking from experience that it is an issue Rabbonim are concerned about and most are currently holding strong on. As I said above even many non-Jewish owned kosher restaurants are closed on Shabbos.
“but I never saw a place advertise cholov yisroel and pas yiroel and be open on Shabbos”
You listed 3 things all of which are not necessary in order for the food to be “Kosher”. They are all chumros. People need to know how to differentiate between halacha and minhag. If you are machmir not to eat at places that are open on Shabbos then it is up to you to determine whether a particular establishment abides by your standards. Don’t just assume that because they are cholov yisroel that they are also closed on Shabbos.
We should be clear here. Fun City is NOT a restaurant. It is an indoor amusement park that sells food and drinks from a concession stand. There is no reason to assume that the kosher and non kosher food is sold from the same “stand” and there is no reason to assume that just because Fun City is open on shabbos the kosher concession stand is also open on shabbos. But why speculate, call the Rav Hamachshir. 90 seconds of internet browsing and you will find contact information for Fun City, The Rav Hamachshir and even a brief bio of the Rav Hamachshir.
I know Rabbi Schechter personally, I will bli neder try to reach him before yom tov to get an answer or if not then after yom tov and find out from the source what the deal is.
What I meant was how can the pas yisroel (and even the general kosher) status of the ovens, if this is an issue, be guaranteed over Shabbos. You have a goy with no neemanus using the ovens and he can sneak anything in when there is no mashgiach – assuming this is not a snack bar where they reheat wrapped food.
There is a chance that this may be a situation that is machshil es harabim, and also a chance it is not. It is unusual, that is for sure.
I don’t understand. Monsey Mom said Chag kosher v’sameach, implying it was post from shortly before Pesach. Post says it was posted 6 months ago, which wasn’t before Pesach. Can anyone explain?
Succos.
There are kosher bakeries that are open on Shabbos; the g’mara and shulchan aruch discuss this and sets forth halachos concerning the items that are baked on Shabbos. Chazal were not concerned about the items being kosher worthy; just that bread baked on shabbos by a Yid is always forbidden because of k’nas and you need to wait a certain amount of time after shabbos is over before eating the goy’s shabbos baked items.
Courtesy of the Fun City Facebook page:
Dear Friends, Fun City has permanently closed. The Palisades Center has de-leased the entire wing to convert the area into a Dick’s Sporting Goods. The news came to us suddenly and we apologize that we have not been able to give advance notice. We greatly appreciate your support.
The paintball place next door was also “de-leased”…
Yes, it closed. Not that it matters anymore, but there was a system in place, implemented by the Rav Hamachshir, to make sure that no tarfus went on on shabbos or Yom Tov.
In the future, learn the facts before you slander a business run by a frum yid.
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