August 3, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #604425ohr chodeshMember
How is it permissible to open the door (or window) to an air conditioned room on Shabbos? By opening the door, you are warming up the room (by letting out some of the cool air) and thus causing the air conditioner to produce more and colder conditioned air, per the temperature setting in the AC thermostat.
This question may be tangentially related to opening a refrigerator door on Shabbos.August 4, 2012 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #889810CuriosityParticipant
I am not so well versed in hilchos grama and psik reisha, but from what I understand: if you cause something to happen, but it wasn’t your intention for it to happen, and it wasn’t a guaranteed direct result of your action then it’s not a problem. Perhaps other people can elaborate… In your case, you had no intention to influence the AC, you were just intending to open the door. Also, the AC isn’t guaranteed to turn on by your opening the door, it may have turned on regardless, or it may not even turn on at all because not enough hot air entered the room.August 5, 2012 2:45 am at 2:45 am #889811yaakov doeParticipant
If that was a problem it would also apply to heating that is controlled by a thermostat. It would mean for 8-9 months a yrear you couldn’t enter or leave your house or shul. All shuls that I’ve been to have ac and people including very chosul rabonim seem to enter aqnd leave.August 5, 2012 2:59 am at 2:59 am #889812Sam2Participant
Quite simply, because each individual opening of the door does not have enough of an effect to cause a motor to go on. Same with opening a refrigerator.August 5, 2012 3:15 am at 3:15 am #889813zahavasdadParticipant
It would also be an issue with Heat in the winter as opening a door in the cold causes heat to be released and cold air to come in and make the heat go onAugust 5, 2012 6:11 am at 6:11 am #889814
First of all, it is “dovor she-eino miskaven’- something that you don’t intend doing- and we pasken that this is muttor. Because it is a very temporary event- opening a door or a window- it is not a “psik reishe’. Evne if it you want to say that it is a “psik reishe”, it is ‘lo niche lei’ (he does not want the intended result) and we pasken like the aruch that allows “psik reishe” if it is ‘lo niche lei”August 5, 2012 6:46 am at 6:46 am #889815One of the chevraParticipant
It definitely is “Neecha Lei” because if the compressor didn’t work more when the hot air entered the room the AC would not cool off the room’ and the whole point of having the AC is to cool off the room so he surely wants it to work the way it should! so the problem still remains.August 5, 2012 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #889816
Dear ‘one of the chevra’- i think you misunderstand how airconditioners wrok. They all work on thermostats and once the temperature feels that the temperature falls below a certain limit (or above), it kicks the motor in, REGARDLESS of opening doors or windows. In other words, just by breathing and living and being in the house (room), you will ultimately affect the thermostat. As a matter of fact, having a large number of people in a room probably affects the airconditioning way more than opening the door for a fleeting moment.
So- how de live with heating, airconditioning, refrigerators, ovens?clearly , it is because it is ‘dovor she-eino miskaven’ and, because it does not have a DIRECT effect (even when you open a refrigerator door, the motor does not kick in right away)it becomes a grama and muttor. As far as “psik reisha” goes, you may want the effect of the compressor but not RIGHT AWAY. in other words, you don’t wan’t the door pening to act as the reason for the compressor working.August 5, 2012 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #889817
ROB: “you may want the effect of the compressor but not RIGHT AWAY”
That is not sufficient to be called “Lo Nicha”.
However, regardless of that point, you are correct that it is Muttar because it is Eino Miskavein and also Grama. It is not a Psik Reisha at all because it is neither an immediate reaction nor a certain one.August 6, 2012 1:49 am at 1:49 am #889818choppyParticipant
What if you open the window or door with the specific intention of letting out the cold air, since you are too cold?August 6, 2012 4:38 am at 4:38 am #889819
Witht going into too great detail, “psik reisha” means that the result of the action is inevitable- when you cut a head of something living, it will die ,for sure. Here, the fact of opening the door is not the direct cause of the airconditoner working(heat in the winter) starting- there are a myriad other reasons- people ni the room, the hot weather, doors opening from other rooms, etc,,,,hence, it is “dovor she-ein miskaven’ and not a “psik reisha”.
I would submit that it also “lo nichei lei’ because he doesn’t want the action of the door opening (the airconditioner starting)as a result of his action.August 6, 2012 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #889820
choppy: That would be even better, as now there would be grounds to call it “Lo Nicha” when the compressor comes on, since you have domonstarated that it is too cold for you.August 6, 2012 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #889821
Just wanted to point out a refrigerator is less obvious to Mattir. Due to its smaller size and greater temperature differential from the ambient, the motor is more certain and speedy to turn on. There would be more reason to consider it a Psik Reisha.August 6, 2012 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #889822ChachamParticipant
I believe in Meor Hashabbos Chelek 4 ( a great sefer that deals with all electronics like cameras, ovens , urns, AC, etc.) Rav Elyashiv ZT”l is mechaleik between walking into a room with ac and a refrigerator because the maaseh of opening the door on a refrigerator is a maaseh on the guf of the fridge thereby the melacha is nisyaches to the opener. ???”? the ac opening the door is not a maaseh on the ac. ???”? ???? . That sefer has a long arichus on this inyan and I believe in sefer hilchos shabbas bshabbos Chelek 3 (hebrewbooks only has the first two chalakim) also is maarich why it is chaluk from a fridge.August 6, 2012 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #889823shlishiMember
Chacham: I understand your comment to indicate that the Meor Hashabbos says Rav Elyashev holds opening a refrigerator is assur on Shabbos. Correct?August 6, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #889824
shlishi- or many years, there has been a difference of opinion about opening refrigerator doors WHEN THE MOTOR IS NOT RUNNING. I think every one admits that you can open the door of a refrigerator when the motor is running- as you don’t cause any new start (at most, the motor continues for longer and it is not even a geromo). When you open the door while the motor is not running, you may cause the motor to start quicker and this is what some Poskim may have objected to. I am not sure which side Rav Elyashiv zz’l accepts.August 6, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #889825ohr chodeshMember
What if the AC is on “Energy Saver” mode, where it goes on and off based upon the room temperature?
Would it be the same to open the door when the AC is on off mode (energy saver) as opening a fridge door when the motor is not running?August 6, 2012 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #889826
shlishi: correct. Israeli Shabbos mode fridges disable the thermostat as well as any lights.August 6, 2012 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #889827
OC: no, it’s not as sensitive as a fridgeAugust 6, 2012 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #889828ChachamParticipant
Rav moshe rav aharon rav elyashiv rav henkin and most poskim are only Mattir when the compressor is on. However rav Shlomo Zalman Is famous for his teshuva in mInchas Shlomo that is
Mattir even when the compressor is not running. An ac Is Pashtus the same and is talui if it is blowing lulei rav elyashiv.
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