June 13, 2011 3:21 am at 3:21 am #795907
We’re not talking about “looking”. The question is close friendships. I would assume that any “close friendships” would fall under the issur of “lo sikrivu”.
And I don’t think Joseph answered the question [as usual :)]. The question was where in the psukim do we see this issur with regards to Eishes IshJune 13, 2011 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #795910
Aside from the Halachick issues, Issurim (if you hold that way), the entire concept is impossible.
Single Guys and Single Girls CAN NOT (not practical) be friends! All it leads to is akwardness and inner feelings being hurt.
A guy who says “my best friend is a girl”, is basically saying “I like this girl so much, but she doesn’t like me back, so we are best friends, so I can always have hope of marrying her”.
The guy who is “friends” with a girl, will ALWAYS hold out hope that they will get engaged/married to each other.
And yes the same/above applies to the girl also.June 13, 2011 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #795911
Since this thread deals with Opposite Gender Friendships; in light of the pending Toeiva legislation, it may be a good place and time to warn about Same Gender Friendships.
The Rabbonim today have issued a proclamation for us to call our elected officials and voice our concern and opposition to the immoral legislation dealing with same gender marriage which is before them.
So Brooklyn and Queens residents, please call the office of Congressman Anthony Weiner and let him know our feeling on this vital issue which deals with the corruption of the moral fabric of our society.June 13, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #795912
at this point i dont think weiner is the best guy to call about immoral issues. he really wont be listened to as he has proved to be immoral himself.June 13, 2011 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #795913
Oh, thanks.June 14, 2011 1:28 am at 1:28 am #795914
I’m a girl and enjoyed the ladder theory idea very much.
It’s true, for the most part, although in the frum community people will generally try to avoid such situations so it doesn’t come up as much. A lot of girls are in denial about it and end up shooting themselves in the foot.July 25, 2011 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #795915
I know I’me being dumb by asking but a friend of mine who met this guy and would like to be his friend- and just a friend. i keep telling her that its not going to stay that way- every relationship either goes forward or back… but it defys all logic and she just loves talking to himJuly 25, 2011 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #795916
Bad idea, bad idea, bad idea.
It’s a tease and nothing more. One is inevitably more interested in the other, which leads to heartbreak. Friendship is about sharing to get close, breaking down barriers to become emotionally intimate (which can lead to physical intimacy). Anyone who denies this is in denial or in a relationship with someone who is the more interested party. It’s a modern idea that needs to be eliminated from the orthodox community.July 25, 2011 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #795917
in a way she wishes he would push her away so that it wont be so tempting for her. i think hes starting to do that- he lost interest in being played around with (one day she talks to him, the next day she tells him she has to behave and cant talk to him…) but now its hard to get over that.July 25, 2011 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #795918
There is only difficulties down that path. Many people have been that way and none of them were matzliach.July 25, 2011 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #795919
i also thought that could work…the results were Disastrous …July 26, 2011 1:42 am at 1:42 am #795920
Okay, here’s another story to illustrate that being “friends” with a guy/girl if you’re a girl/guy does NOT exist !
My friend is very frum. I wouldn’t classify her as “yeshivish” but still doesnt-talk-to-guys frum.
In one of her classes this semester, was a yeshivish (looking) boy. (And very good looking unfortunately.) He would sit down next to her in class, come over after class and ask questions, and was, in general, making this girl think (with good reason!) than he wanted to date her. Eventually. At first my friend’s theory was that he first had to take the LSATS, and then he’d formally ask her out. I had misgivings because she was not the only girl he talked to, but didn’t want to ruin any high hopes for my friend – he was REALLY playing her emotions.
One day, they started emailing back and forth- it started off innocuous enough- about an upcoming test bla bla bla.. and ended up being used as an excuse to flirt outrageously.
My seriously shtark friend was sitting at her computer for hours on end trying to come up with funny responses to his funny responses.
One night, he ended his email with “Okay, I’m tired and cant be on my a-game anymore, layla tov!”
And he never emailed or contacted my friend again.
Who was heartbroken obviously.
And 2 months later, he’s dating someone seriously.
Honestly, generalizations across the board are difficult, but in this case- it’s just NOT worth it to start up with a a guy/girl unless you’re dating her/him.
imho.July 26, 2011 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #795921
You guys are right. But when you’re in it its very hard to break away and give it up.July 26, 2011 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #795922
even if you know that it defies all logic and makes no sense but there’s still a drive from both sides so its hardJuly 26, 2011 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #795923
The last RebelMember
And this is a friend your talking about……….July 26, 2011 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #795924
Yes, everyone here is right that a guy and a girl of marriageable age shouldn’t try to JUST be friends, because it probably wont work. But if I may make a “bold”, or crazy,(depends how you take it) statement: I think this is mostly true for people that have grown up not talking to or being friends with the opposite sex. For them, suddenly having a “friend” of the opposite sex will almost never stay as just a friend, because they wont really have boundaries since they lack familiarity with such a relationship. But I think for people who have grown up having friends of the opposite sex, I can see it being perfectly fine to continue friendships even at a marriageable age. It might even help in finding him or her a shidduch, since a friend might know someone. But since I can assume most people here are of the former group (Not having those types of friendships), I wouldn’t advise to start having them now. Bad idea. (As bortez’s example clearly illustrates.)July 26, 2011 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #795925
A friend of mine is the girl. i dont deal with the guysJuly 26, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #795928
The people who had opposite gender friends their whole life generally have a lot more problems (read: issurim) then the people who never had opposite gender friends.July 26, 2011 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #795929
Middle- i dont think you are crazy but just not being realistic. the reason I dont want her going there with this guy is because I understand better than she does (as an outsider) that there is no reason for her to talk to him and it wont stay that way at all!July 26, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #795930
Chein: I respectfully disagree.July 26, 2011 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #795931
middle- are you convincing yourself because you dont wanna feel guilty. I dont mean that in a nasty way but sometimes ppl know that certain things are not right but they did it in the past and dont wanna have to face that they are wrong so….July 26, 2011 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #795932
adorable, Actually, no. I am saying this based on the community I grew up in, the schools I’ve attended, and the friends I’ve had. I, personally, didn’t have too many friends that were girls, and now, I also don’t. But most of my “guy” friends have plenty, and just about all of them are wonderful, responsible, mature, and all of their friendships with girls (except for one guy who is dating a long-time friend) are just friendships. I honestly don’t see anything coming from it. But that’s just for people who have grown up that way. I think for people who haven’t, it’s a bad idea to start it now. I’m not saying growing up with opposite sex friendships is right or wrong (I happen to think it depends on a lot of things), I’m just saying that continuing those friendships won’t hurt nearly as much as starting new ones with people who have never had such friendships.July 26, 2011 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #795933
It is absolutely assur to have such friendships. Much like yichud, they will inevitably lead to arayos.July 26, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #795934
middle- I agree that its much worse to start now and it is much more natural when ur friends for years butJuly 26, 2011 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #795936
There is a tsheva from R’ Moshe that states pretty black and white that it is assur to have an opposite-gender friend. (I saw it inside at some point, but I don’t remember where it is… does anybody else?)July 26, 2011 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #795937
Pac-ManMemberJuly 26, 2011 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #795938
am yisrael chaiParticipant
“talking to the same gender”
Does talking to myself count? 🙂July 27, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #795940
Boys and girls who break this Halacha and are boyfriend and girlfriend should not be allowed to marry just like we don’t allow a man who cheats with a married woman to marry her after her divorce. And if they do get married, they should be forced to divorce, just like the other relationship that began without kedusha.
That’s a good idea. Why don’t you tell Hashem that, and maybe next time He creates a world, He’ll put that in the Torah.
(Or tell the chachamim and maybe next time they have an anshei knesses hagdola, they’ll make that gzeirah.)July 27, 2011 2:37 am at 2:37 am #795941
Lol, and well put.July 27, 2011 3:03 am at 3:03 am #795942
actually tosafos in yevamos 24B says it is a mizva to marry her of “vi’lo si’he le’isha”July 27, 2011 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #795943
popa- you had me rolling! good job!July 27, 2011 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #795944
guys- what about once your married? is it ok then?July 28, 2011 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #795945
guys, yes or no?July 28, 2011 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #795946
to Mz. adorable:
I believe that one can be “friendly” without being friends, but only with Jews. Non-Jews you can be more friendly/friends, because there is always that natural distinction/separation.
However, know yourself, and get hadracha that is tailored to you and your own Yetzer.July 28, 2011 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #795947
im asking if a single girl can be just friends with a married guy or does it also not work thenJuly 28, 2011 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #795948
im asking if a single girl can be just friends with a married guy or does it also not work then
IMHO, bad idea.July 28, 2011 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #795949
Adorable – that is even worse … would you like to be the one causing problems between him and his wife?
i wouldnt dare!July 28, 2011 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #795950
dont worry hes been cheating her for a while and she cheats him too…July 28, 2011 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #795951
dont worry hes been cheating her for a while and she cheats him too…
Danger Will Robinson, Danger!July 28, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #795952
Two wrongs dont make a right!July 28, 2011 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #795953
Strait up wen I read the title I was like no way!! Doesn’t matter who or eat situAtion Is or wat age being friends with a girl just doesn’t se rite. Now thinking about it tho it depends on where u come from if Ur from a more irreligious family Nd comunitu than go for it! Nd hatzlocha. But if your a good yeshivish, chassidish guy who learns alot Nd knows how much girls can distract from learning escoecially wen they become Ur friends than u better stay away! It deff won’t help u!July 28, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #795954
I had a bf and it almost destroyed me.. at first i thought its only talking/texting.. big deal . But i realized my mistake a bit too late it DOES NOT end there. It is a Very Dangerous situation to get into!!August 8, 2011 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #795955
Any ideas how to make sure that i dont fall into this bad thing again?August 8, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #795956
are you engaged?August 8, 2011 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #795957
yes why?August 8, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #795958
tracht: You are engaged and falling into this with someone else?August 8, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #795959
I was wondering that same exact thing. cant you just wait a little bit?August 8, 2011 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #795960
“dont worry hes been cheating her for a while and she cheats him too…”
1. You are playing around with the issur of aishes ish. One is supposed to allow themselves to be killed rather than committing adultery.
2. What goes around comes around. If you do this sin, you will be ruining your life and you will probably have a hard time finding anyone to marry and if you do get married I can almost guarantee you that you will not have Shalom Bayis and your husband will probably break your heart and cheat on you.
Run away from such sins. Stay far far away from opposite gender friendships. It ALWAYS ends badly.August 8, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #795961
i am engaged and no i am not falling into this bh. But i did have a boyfriend b4 and i want to make sure that i never do that again chas veshulem.August 8, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #795962
Than make up your mind to only freely speak/communicate with your fiance/husband and no other man. If you have to speak sometimes speak only with other men as needed and no more, and only as many words as needed and no more.
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