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Rav Avigdor Miller on Orthodox Concerts
Q: Is it proper for a boy to perform in a concert?
A: It depends what kind of concert. If it’s a concert that’s held, let’s say, in the yeshiva for yeshiva men, so on certain occassions, yes, it’s proper. On Purim certainly; on some other occasions as well. But as far as a concert that is done for the public, I’m going to reserve my opinion. Because sometimes the atmosphere at these so called Orthodox concerts is not what it should be. There is a lot of mixing, and leitzanus, and it looks a good deal like a rock and roll gathering. And therefore, it’s not in the spirit of the Torah to come together just to hear singing, just to hear singing alone.
I wouldn’t say it’s forbidden; I’m not going to disapprove of it, but it’s not the derech of the Am Hashem to come together to hear singing. When people are performing mitzvos and they sing while doing the mitzvos that’s a different story – it’s avodas Hashem. They sing shabbos zemiros, they sing at the simchas beis hashoeiva, or simchas yom tov – that’s a different thing. But to come together in a hall specially for singing, that’s not the Jewish method of doing things. It’s an imitation of the umos ha’olam and therefore I’m not so enthusiastic about it.
Tape # 910 (March 1993)
Things have gotten a lot worse since 1993
To JJ2020
“Things have gotten a lot worse since 1993..”
Many of us believe the music has gotten a lot better since 1993. As evidence by the many concerts promoted here on YWN, we are fortunate to have a proliferation of great frum artists with incredible musical talent and creativity. Concerts are conducted so that they are either exclusively for men or that separate seating is available for those that wish to be machmir. The quality of the audio, lighting and other production values are substantially better than they were in 1993. Most importantly, there are even concerts by women performers that are exclusively for women. Sorry you have such a negative view of today’s musical scene.
@GH- I think that was the single funniest post I’ve ever read. Well done.
G H
Are you bolstering rabbi Miller’s point ?
Cause if not you totally missed it.
His point
I will not say concerts are forbidden
But it’s not the Jewish spirit to get together simply for musical enjoyment.
How does that change when you upgrade the enjoyment factor?
Then it becomes in the spirit??As an aside. You write ”for those wishing to be machmir”
Can you provide me with any name of an orthodox rabbi who will go on record stating that it is permitted to sit in mixed gender seating at a concert?
It can only be properly called a ‘chumra ” if it is technically permittedCoping the goyim is real creative.
There have been advertisements on frum websites for concerts (men only performers) but where they offer mixed gender (aka “family”) seating along with men only/women only seating. None of these sites would knowingly or deliberately post ads for activities that are explicitly “assur” by the majority of frum rabbonim. We have always acknowledged here that one person’s chumrah may be another’s kulah. Obviously, just being here on YWN means that we are violating the directives of many gadolei hador (as manifest in a gazillion asifahs) that the internet and social media are assur m’doraisah. Rav Miller’s position 25 years ago is what it is and some will choose to follow the general inyan that Jews don’t come together just to enjoy music. I suspect many YWN participants don’t hold by Rav Miller but no reason they have to.
Am I missing something here? There is great importance to this message from Rav Avigdor Miller ZT”L, and it is not about the concerts, though that is the context. He is guiding us in how to approach many things in life. It is not about making bans or issurim. It is about recognizing the pride that a Yid must have, and that there are many things for which we should refrain because “Es passt nisht”. Unfortunately, the frum community has been using our leaders to create issurim, and believes that this will make us better. It does not. The Torah gives us 365 mitzvos “Loh Saaseh”, and even tells us in the gemora that having more prohibitions than positive mitzvos is the basis for נח לו לאדם שלא נברא משנברא. To simply add to that list is not the way to accomplish things. There is certainly room for our Gedolim to point out to us that there are contemporary issues are included in age old issurim, and I have no hesitation to the occasional levying of a new issur, as needed by the times. But the persistent “Kol Korehs” with new issurim and “standards” is not the way that HKBH wants to run the world. Rav Avigdor Miller’s message is that these concerts are simply not proper, but that creating an issur is not how to manage the community. That is a precious piece of guidance from a sorely missed Gadol.
JJ2020 “copying the goyim is really creative”…
Actually, it is really the goyim copying the yidden….we are living at a time when the really frum Christians (especially the charedii brand of Evangelicals) seem to find great joy in cloning everything we do….over the weekend, I noticed a sign at a local reform shul advertising a joint Purim carnival with a local church, just like they’ve previously held joint sedorim/last suppers. Even the muslims have gotten in on the act with a proliferation of “challal” fast food joints which are almost indistinguishable from dozens of kosher pizza/felaffel places with the adder of “all you can eat Schrama on Thursday nights (in lieu of chulent). Mi kamocha yisroel
There are many types on concerts. Personally, I use to enjoy the more flashy concerts, but as I matured I came to enjoy the reach and emotional dveykus over the flash.
That said, there are concerts that are basically giant tishim. Eitan and Shlomo Katz for example, give very deep concerts. Full of Torah, full of Dveykus.
If anyone has ever been to the Yud Tes Kislev concerts in Yerushalayim, the flash serves the ruchniyus. The lighting and video effects are flashy, but showing divray Torah and insight into the music. There are divray Torah leading into just about every song, giving newer, deeper insight. And there is big fabrengens for a couple of hours before the concerts, as well as a museum of chassidus to put you into the mood.
There are ways to do concerts, even with flashy “rock and roll” that are spiritually uplifting. I have tremendous respect for Rav Miller, and in this instance there are other points if view from big rabbanim as well.
The Little I know: +1 Totally spot on!
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