October 17, 2010 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #592655
i wanted to post this right after the yomim tovim, because that’s when i witnessed what i am about to describe. i got a little busy, but the issue still stands. there i was, on yom tov, in the ezras nashim sitting in my seat by the mechitza, which is a one way glass (in our shul, women are upstairs on a balcony sort of thing, and men are downstairs. women can see men, men cannot see women)and i saw something that really disturbed me. a man wearing a tallis took off his glasses and began to wipe them with his tallis. there was a full tissue box right next to him, we were not in middle of shmoneh esrei (he could have moved closer to the tissue box if he really couldn’t reach). i tried to be dan l’kaf z’chus by thinking that he was concentrating so hard on his davening that he didn’t even notice the tissue box, but obviously he stopped to wipe his glasses, at that point,he could have looked for a tissue box.
i think a tallis should be treated as kadosh, not for wiping glasses, or tables or so on. men, treat ur tallesim with the respect they deserve, they are a part of your connection to H-Shem.
ThanksOctober 17, 2010 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #701980
100% right. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is in Halacha.October 17, 2010 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #701981
Why waste a precious tissue to wipe your glasses when you can use your tallis? Many regular guys will wipe their glasses with their ties or shirts. Its not in anyway a bizoyon. Wasting a precious tissue maybe a issur deoraisa of bal tashchis…October 17, 2010 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #701982
I certainly would be dan lkav zechus; R’ Elyashiv was asked this exact question in Kovetz Teshuvos Chelek Aleph and writes that it is not a bizayon, based on Zaidy’s reasoning – that one would do it with one’s shirt or other garment. So yes, it is indeed in Halacha. 🙂October 17, 2010 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #701983
I hope you aren’t serious.
The Mishna Berura in Siman 21 Sif Katan 12 says that according to some authorities it is forbidden to use the cloth of a Talis Gadol for a mundane purpose. So it is better not to but if one wiped their glasses with the Talis there are some shittos who hold its ok.October 17, 2010 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #701984
If he was so engrossed in his davening he may not even have realized that he used his tallis to clean his glasses. While I don’t think that this is the right thing to do, there are far worse things that people do.October 17, 2010 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #701985
Perhaps a limmud zchus The SA writes 21:2 ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????
Who says that wiping eyeglasses is a ?????? ?????? ???
See MB who brings the Pri Magid who Assessors recycling talisos to
pants. Is it equivalent?? Ask your Rav before condemningOctober 17, 2010 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #701986
HLM: Someone that does that is very much an exception. Few men would c”v do something like that.October 17, 2010 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #701987
This is why I stay home 😀October 17, 2010 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #701988
zaidy78, (i’m not sure if you were serious or not) i don’t exactly equate a shirt and tie with a tallis. a tallis is something you put on when you daven- i think that it probably has more kedusha than a shirt. also, is a tissue more precious than a tallis? that’s what a tissue is for- to clean things.
moq, like i said, i don’t equate it with “one’s shirt or other garment”
minyan gal- yes, i know there are far worse things! this just bothered me when i saw it, it just didn’t look nice.
trying to be helpful- i’m not condemning- just trying to tell ppl it doesn’t really seem like the nicest thing to do. i did try to be dan l’kaf zchus. also, can you please explain the first part of ur post? i don’t understand it. thanks!
thanks WIY!October 17, 2010 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #701989
You are welcome!October 17, 2010 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #701990
we must first understand why w even have a Tallit.
It used to be in ancient times that we did the Mitzvah of Tzitzit by simply tying 4 strings to each of the four corners of our regular cloths. Then the Romans forbid us from attaching strings to the four corners of our cloths. So we invented special mini tzitzit that went under out cloths similar to what we use today (Tallit Katan). However it was understood that this tallit katan was more of a zecher to the mitzvah than actually fulfilling it (yes technically there is a minimum size for a garment…).
However the mitzvah states that you must place tzitzit on your “garments” and a garment envelopes you and protects you from the elements. So we came up with a solution we made up the Tallit Gadol so that at least a few minutes a day I take a big four cornered garment with tzitzit attached and fulfill the mitzvah in its ultimate form.
This is why we make the bracha “l’hitatev b tzitzit” (to be enveloped by the tzitzit) on the Tallit gadol, while on the tallit katan we sat “al mitzvat tzitzit” (about or regarding the mitzvah of tzitzit) as it is only a reminder.
The point is that tzitzit were meant to be part of our everyday dress, which you get dirty and so on and the tallit Gadol is nothing to be elevated to such a point that I would not use it to clean my glassesOctober 17, 2010 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #701991
R’ Elyashiv disagrees; he says that the level of Kavod for a Tallis is like a shirt. He says that it is not a bizayon to the tallis. It is indeed permissible. (Kovetz Teshuvos, Chelek Aleph)October 18, 2010 12:21 am at 12:21 am #701992
Sorry I am better at cyber-gymnastics, click and paste, search etc than writing and organizing thought.October 18, 2010 12:23 am at 12:23 am #701993
HashemLovesMe, I am totally serious. A tallis (the garment) is just a four cornered piece of cloth. Four cornered garments require the fringes (tzitzes). There is no kedusha to the tallis. We all where them (or the smaller version… tzitzes) when we go to the bathroom. A tallis can be thrown out (wrapped nicely) after its use. There is no k’dusha in it. It is just used for the miztva. (Tashmishei Mitzva vs. Tashmishei Kedusha). There is discusions in halacha about wearing a towel over your head needing tzitzes or a blanket in bed. But noone would say not to clean your glasses with you beach towel.October 18, 2010 12:27 am at 12:27 am #701994October 18, 2010 3:30 am at 3:30 am #701995
The Talis Gadol is different than talis Katon (tzitzis). The Talis Gadol is a beged that is specifically for prayer only. It is used for Mitzvah and one should not go into the bathroom wearing a TG.October 18, 2010 3:56 am at 3:56 am #701996
I just came back from B”HM where I noshed a bit. ???? ?????? ???? ?”? PAGE ??”? brings quite a few Poskim who at best are “not too keen” about using a T”G for cleaning glasses. He brings that the Steipler did use during Davening as it was ???? ????
HLM please accept my apologies for being a bit strong. Your sensitivity for ?????? ???? is commendableOctober 18, 2010 4:11 am at 4:11 am #701997
HLM – Why is it not nice wiping your glasses in a talis? Is the talis getting dirty from it? You are just merely wiping it clean! Its not like you ae blowing your nose in the talis! I dont see why for any reason it should be assur, its not at all a bizayon. And besides the Minchas Chinuch states there is no commandment to wear tzitis, the only commandment is a garment which is 4 cornered should have tzitis on it. The beged/garment is just a tufal to the iker mitzvah.October 18, 2010 5:24 am at 5:24 am #701998
I once observed someone blow (or wipe) his nose into his talis.October 18, 2010 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #702000
Why is everyone just ignoring Moq? If I would say something which remotely implies I am disagreeing with R’ Elyashiv I would get jumped, and here when he’s quoting R’ Eiyashiv his post is simply ignored. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that this case he is being meikil? Just wondering…October 18, 2010 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #702001
I have to admit that I sometimes use my tallis for a function other than tefillah.
Specifically, when I go to davening on Shabbos mornings and the temperature is a bit nippy, I use it to keep warm. I suppose it is possible to wear a coat on top of it (to show that I’m not using it for warmth), but then I’d be too hot.
So, which level of hell am I going to for this profane use of a tallis?
The WolfOctober 18, 2010 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #702002
LOL Wolf. Welcome back.October 18, 2010 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #702003
Just wondering… disagreeing with R’ Elyashiv = quoting ???
The keywords are ?????? ?????? Talitos are not ???? ?????October 18, 2010 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #702004
yitayningwut – It because there is something you may not be familiar with which is called a Machlokes; a machlokes is where not all poskim agree to the same point. I actulaly heard a shmuz from a adom godal – that it is the gresta kavod for tzitis to wear them while playing any sports etc. that get you sweated up!October 18, 2010 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #702005
The keywords are ?????? ??????
So they are… I failed to notice that.
I guess I’m safe on that count (for what it’s worth).
The WolfOctober 18, 2010 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #702006
Thank you for enlightening me… I think you missed my point.October 18, 2010 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #702007
Other than davening, the only other thing I used my talis for is to cover my kids during dichuning. The next planned use (aside from davening) is as a wrap, achar meah v’esrimOctober 18, 2010 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #702008
yitayningwut – Can you please explain me which point I missed?October 18, 2010 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #702009
real-brisker wrote I actulaly heard a shmuz from a adom godal – that it is the gresta kavod for tzitis to wear them while playing any sports etc. that get you sweated up I doubt the adom godal was referring to T”G
T”G & T”K are 2 Dinim<em/> See Aruch Hashilchon
???? ?? ???? ? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????
You remind of an expression my Melamed used often ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????October 18, 2010 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #702010
Bptotty You mean to say that you did not wrap your boys in a Talis the first time you took theim to Cheder? As I remember from another thread you are not yet of Mechutan age. Just wait you may yet have Safardi &/or Yekkish Mechutanim who will want the Cjoson/Kallah covered by a Talis, and as R’ Yaakov ZT”L said “My minhag is to do what the Mechtanim want.”October 18, 2010 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #702011
“wrap your boys in a Talis the first time you took theim to Cheder”
Thank you for pointing that out. It was many years ago, and I forgot.
Truth be told, I’m just getting used to having an “empty tallis” by dichuning. I guess its a sign of aging 🙁October 18, 2010 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #702012
sbh – yes it was reffering to tzitis which in other words are known as tallis katan. On your comment to bptotty – It (usually as far as im concerened) isnt the father that goes under the talis by the chupa it is the son or daughter, so i think he still qouted what he uses his talis for correcty.October 18, 2010 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #702013
And as far as going along with my mechutonim, I see myself as being a real pleasure to deal with, as the only one that can suffer from my obstinance would be my sons.
Besides, by the time we get the happy couple down the aisle, we’ll have both made so many concessions, it’l be hard to tell who’s who.
(Halivey, b’korov. I’d even consider going white-shirt only in the Fall / Winter, if it comes down to that. But lets see :()October 18, 2010 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #702014
“wrap your boys in a Talis the first time you took them to Cheder” reminded me.
A neighbor,an older childless man,who did not remember this Minhag (a litvak, anybody knows Minhag Lita?) was so shocked seeing a child’s feet sticking out of Talis, that 2 decades later when I introduced myself as a former neighbor in BP he did not remember me but that sight did not leave him.October 18, 2010 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #702015
Takeh, the Yekkis still do a chuppas tallis (it’s a beautiful minhag) – that is , have the chosson kallah were the tallis together, or merely use it as a chuppah? ????? ????? ?? ???? (Rus)October 18, 2010 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #702016
People really do not get it!
Tzitzit was meant to be put on your everyday cloths! The creation of our “tallit Gadol” was to allow for fulfilling the mitzvah on a litchatchilah level. It only came into existence as a response to the Roman decry that we could no longer attach tzitzit to our garments!
Please see my response aboveOctober 18, 2010 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #702017
This should be the biggest avaira that any of us do!
Moshiach may come sooner!!!!!!October 18, 2010 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #702018
wow, thanks everyone for all ur answers! i’ve heard things here i never have before! all really interesting!
trying to be helpful, really no need to apologize, but it’s accepted anyway!October 19, 2010 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #702019
May one clean his glasses with the Tallit he wears during prayer? The Mishna Berura (21:12) cites two views as to whether one may use a Tallit that still has Tzitzit strings for a purpose other than the Mitzva. (Of course, all views would forbid using the garment for a denigrating purpose, such as cleaning one’s body.) He then cites the Peri Megadim as clarifying that according to all views, the Tallit designated for use during Tefila may not be used for any other purpose; therefore, one may not clean his glasses with the Tallit worn during the prayer service.
May one clean his glasses with his Tallit Katan?
Yes; the Mishna Berura (21:12) writes that one may use his Tallit Katan for any purpose that is not denigrating.
SOURCE: http://www.mishnaberura.com thanks to apushatayid for leading to this resource
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.