Our community’s options

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Our community’s options

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2486154
    akuperma
    Participant

    1. We can hope and daven that anti-Semitic (meaning pro-Hamas, meaning favoring genocide of our people both in Eretz Yisrael and Galus) politicians will be defeated at the polls, at least in the Anglo-phonic countries, We need to be wary since all the English speaking countries have major political parties that openly are sympathetic with Hamas and its allies. While a program of learning and davening is easy for us to implement, taking non-violent action in the face of blood thirsty murderers, raises the shailoh of being somekh al nissim (relying on miracles).

    2. If we need to defend ourselves, we need to have a large number of people who are physically fit, are familiar with armed and unarmed combat, and have the skills to operate weapons (not just marksmanship, but electronics, auto mechanics, industrial skills to build and operate weapons, first aid, etc.). Furthermore, we should never consider compromising on Torah and MItsvos to do this (unlike our Israeli cousins who made the IDF the ikar, and Torah the teflah). This would probably require having our schools drop electives other than the “subjects” mentioned above, and take “Physical education” very seriously (not “fun and games”). Our summer camps can easily turn their non-learning time to preparedness. The small number of adult programs now existent could be expanded and refocused. The goyim may be annoyed if their Jewish neighbors appear to be preparing for a fight, even if the United States with its long tradition of a citizen militia and private gun ownership.

    3. Consider moving to Eretz Yisrael. For some individuals this will be a hardship such as those owning real estate in frum neighborhoods, or adults whose careers do not readily transform into jobs in Israel (such as lawyers who will need to master a new legal system and gain the high degree of fluency in Ivrit that their profession requires, or Torah teachers since there are already more than Eretz Yisrael can support). More importantly, if the governments in the western world are willing to tolerate anti-Semitism and support Hamas (and Iran’s) program to “globalize the intifada” (i.e. spread their campaign for genocide of Jews worldwide), that means Israel will be totally isolated politically and economically (meaning no options for purchasing weapons, no receipt of funds or support from other countries). Most of Israel’s upper class will find the necessary sacrifices unacceptable and will emigrate, destroying the high tech “Start-Up nation” that is the core of Israel’s prosperity and security.

    Personally, I’m skeptical if armed resistance to anti-Semites will work (it certainly didn’t during the crusades, or 1648 or the Holocaust – though we did try), and Israel’s long term prospects are not good. So that suggests a need to make a very public embrace of Torah and Mitsvos, which in itself will be a public “resistance” to the anti-Semites (be they Hamas, Nazi-wannabees, or assimilated Jews who are already very annoyed about continued existence.

    #2486618
    ujm
    Participant

    By and large it is the left-wing parties, and even the left of center parties, that are the most tolerant of anti semitism and Jew hatred.

    This is the case mostly worldwide.

    #2486697
    qwerty613
    Participant

    To akuperma

    I guess the only solution is that we all convert to Islam. Yes I’m kidding. The Gemara warned that the situation will be very frightening at the time of Moshiach’s arrival. Perhaps this is what we’re now experiencing.

    #2486954
    paktype
    Participant

    Or we can just give in to the obvious will of Hashem and all be prepared to die. All of the “more Torah being learned now than any time in history” stuff and all of the accolades about chesed and tzedaka will all disappear. And one day, when there are no more Jews, we will see whether the existence of the world depends on Torah as we we always told.

    #2487003
    Redleg
    Participant

    Bring back the JDL

    #2487552
    Evalimoshavlo
    Participant

    Thank you akuperma. Eretz Yisroel is Hashem’s home ובציון תהיה פליטה
    The rules of nature do not apply in Eretz Yisroel.
    paktype – It isnt Hashem’s will that Jews die.
    ובחרת בחיים

    #2487578
    Participant
    Participant

    mods allowed paktype’s heretical, blasphemous post through.

    Are they even jewish?

    #2487579
    Participant
    Participant

    it wasn’t tedious, though, i guess.

    #2487581
    akuperma
    Participant

    re: “Bring back the JDL”

    Problem one: The establishment has captured their slogan, which is now: “Never Again is Now”. Actually this might make things easier.

    Problem two: Dealing with a few bullies is not the same as systematic violent anti-Semitism that is often supported by the political and legal establishment, ranging from unarmed attacks or blockades at public building, to terrorists with explosives and rifles (e.g. Bondi Beach) , to a full fledged pogrom in which the pogromists are aided by the police and government (e.g.: Kishinev 1903). We would need well trained, physically fit, and disciplined people, who won’t over react and make things worse (e.g. shooting at unarmed attacks such as occurs on attacks on campuses, as well as the 1991 Crown Heights Pogrom), while being able to take out a sniper or stop organized terrorists (e.g. Mumbai Chabad House), and possibly be able to act in a Kristallnacht situation (though at that point the goal would probably be an orderly evacuation). — Physical fitness issues can be addressed easily enough (there are frum gyms, day schools have PhysEd that can be modified to include unarmed combat as well as use of weapons, industrial arts classes can be reintroduced into the schools and community groups to provide the basic skills needed to operate modern weapons. — Discipline is a problem since Jews aren’t used to being ordered around (the Israelis have the same problem), though in golus IF the Rabbanim were somewhat united they could probably convince people to act reasonably and not do anything that would worsen matters.

    #2487605
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    It is entertaining to see these big-talking pundits run scared over something as trivial as losing an election.

    #2487631
    HaKatan
    Participant

    The right option is to follow the Torah, and with Hashem’s help, see the best results.

    Before the Holocaust occurred, the Chofetz Chaim noted that as long as we followed the Torah and its sages, we did fine. Only once new “Jewish leaders” arose and people began following them instead of the Torah and its sages, did problems begin, and he then stated who knows how far this will go, or something to that effect.

    We just read VaYishlach, in which Yaakov Avinu taught us how to navigate galus. Whenever Rabbeinu HaKadosh would go to Rome, he would always learn that parsha first.

    That’s the only way: following the Torah.

    paktype:
    Please consult ASAP with a competent LOR.

    #2488211
    Duvidf
    Participant

    If all Torah Jews move to Israel the Greek rulers of Israel (the Supreme Court) can finally be voted out and a true Jewish State can rise. This is the only real solution. The Israeli supreme court who are the modern day greeks remain in power only because of the large segments of Torah Jews who refuse to come and vote. If all Torah Jews of the world come and vote they will be hands down the largest party in the Knesset. Do the math.

    #2488312

    > Only once new “Jewish leaders” arose and people began following them instead of the Torah

    This omits part of the problem that those true Torah leaders were not able to inspire people to follow them. Same Chofetz Chaim reportedly refused to shake hands with the rov from the town where Trotsky was from…

    #2488375
    35TQ9lm5B
    Participant

    here is something practical you can read. it helps a lot with communal issues:

    written by the ramchal

    פָּתַח בִצְלוֹתָא וְאָמַר, רִבּוֹן עָלְמִין, אַנְתְּ אִיהוּ פְּנִימָאָה דְּכָל פְּנִימָאִין, וּבְרָאָה דְּכָל בְּרָאִין, דְּאַנְתְּ מִלְּגַו וּמִלְּבַר וְלֵית אֲתַר בְּעָלְמָא בַּר מִינָךְ. אַנְתְּ כְּלָלָא דְּיִחוּדָא, וָבָךְ אָת מְקַשֵּׁר כֻּלְהוֹ סְפִירָן דִּילָךְ בְּיִחוּדָא חַד, וּבְהוּ אַנְתְּ מְנַהֵג עָלְמִין כִּרְעוּתָךְ. וְלֵית מִלָּה דְּנָפְקָא מֵאוֹרְחָא כְּלָל, אֶלָּא כֹּלָּא בְּשִׁיעוּרָא שְׁלִים. וְאוֹרַיְתָא כְּלָלָא דְּכֹלָּא יְהִיבַת לְעַמֶּךָ קַדִּישָׁא, לְאִתְתַּקְּנָא עַל יְדֵיהוֹן תִּיקּוּנָא שְׁלִים. יְהֵא רַעֲוָא קֳדָמָךְ לְגַלָּאָה נַהִירוּ דְּאוֹרַיְתָךְ דְּתַנְהִיר בְּעָלְמָא, וְיִתְנַהֲרוּן מִינֵּיהּ כָּל בִּרְיָין דִּילָךְ, וְיִתְהַדְּרוּן כֻּלְהוֹ לְפוּלְחָנָךְ. וּבְשִׁבְעִין תִּיקּוּנִין אִלֵּין יִשְׁתַּלִים תִּיקּוּנָא עִלָּאָה לְאִתְקַשְּׁרָא כָּל דַּרְגִּין בְּקִּשְׁרָא חֲדָא, וְיִתְעַטְּרוּן כֻּלְהוֹ בִשְׁכִינְתָּךְ קַדִּישָׁא, דְּאִיהִי מָאנָא דְּכֹלָּא קִשְׁרָא דְּכֹלָּא יִחוּדָא דְּכֹלָּא וְכֹלָּא יִתְקַשַׁר בְּרֵישָׁא דִּבְּרַךְ יְחִידָאָה מַלְכָּא מְשִׁיחָא, לְשַׁלְּטָאָה בֵּיהּ עַל כָּל עָלְמָא, וּלְאִתְגַּלָּאָה נְהוֹרָךְ עַד סוֹפָא דְּכֹלָּא. וְכָל רַע יִתְעַבַּר מֵעָלְמָא, וְיִתְהַדַּר כֹּלָּא לְאִשְׁתַּעְבְּדָא קָמָךְ. וְיִסְתַּלֵּק יְקָרְךָ עַל כָּל סִטְרִין דְּעָלְמָא, כְּמָה דְּאִתְּמָר “יְהִי כְבוֹד יְהֹוָה לְעוֹלָם יִשְׂמַח יְהֹוָה בְּמַעֲשָׂיו”

    #2488418
    Duvidf
    Participant

    Mathematically if all the Torah Jews in Israel would vote, and all the Torah jews of the world come to Israel and vote, they would be hands down the largest and ruling party. Hence in this day and age no matter what the original founders of the state had in mind it is the Torah Jews in Israel who refuse to vote and the Torah Jews of the world who refuse to move to Israel and vote who are solely responsible for the continued secular rule in the state of Israel. In this day and age all the complaints of the anti state of Israel Torah Jews are 100% self inflicted.

    #2488677
    yankel berel
    Participant

    unrealistic AAQ pretends to know better than the rabbanim much greater than him both in torah and yirat shamayim and pikchut , how to deal with the “rav of the town trotsky came from” …

    and therefore hoists himself on a self erected pedestal from where he attempts to judge those who are qualified to judge him …

    if it would not be so sad , it would be comical ….

    #2488679
    yankel berel
    Participant

    @Dovidf

    reality check —

    votes do not help for supreme court crooks

    they anyway override the voted knesset …

    .
    .

    #2488884
    Duvidf
    Participant

    Yankel Berel – With enough votes the laws granting power to the supreme court crooks can be changed as well, like any where else in the world.

    #2489001

    yankel> pretends to know better than the rabbanim much greater than him both in torah and yirat shamayim and pikchut , how to deal with the “rav of the town trotsky came from”

    I beg your pardon – I am just quoting a maaseh of Chofetz Chaim that is presumably as reliable as other stories about him, that is “possible”. And in no way I am “judging”. We are look at the events 100-200 years later. We see many tools and institutions developed that make communities stronger. We might still not fully know which ones and under what conditions are the best, but we are surely doing better than in 19th century. It is not the literal “fault” of those rabbis that they didn’t develop philosophies and kiruv movements overnight, but it is a fact that some views that simply shamed people for “following their hearts” instead of doing as in “good old days” was not effective. Some, rare, people understood the problem and tried to find solutions. Some solutions were not helpful, others developed into something coherent over time … Those were not easy times, and we all do not know what we would have done.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.