July 18, 2017 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1319448HaimyParticipant
I would like to suggest a radical idea to ease the shidduch crisis.
Let’s be mekarev single young men of marriageable age who may possibly then marry an ffb girl.
I don’t know how unusual this is but a number of years ago a friend of mine joined Partners in Torah & learned with a non religious college student on the phone for a year or 2. The young man eventually went on to Ohr Somayach in Yerushalayim & became a true ben Torah. After several years, he returned to the US & married a FFB girl & is a pillar of his community.
I’m sure there are more young men we can be mekarev who wouldf make fine husbands to some of the many frum girls waiting for their zivug.July 18, 2017 12:19 am at 12:19 am #1319452
That might also help the “too many Yidden don’t keep the Torah” crisis, as a side benefit.July 18, 2017 6:39 am at 6:39 am #1319460popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Or, could drive some of the girls OTD.
I mean, more than we already do. It feels like we try harder with boys to drive them OTD (probably to reduce competition for paying kollels), and maybe that’s the real problem that causes age gap.July 18, 2017 6:42 am at 6:42 am #1319462
Why would you not just aggressively try to be mekarev non-frum young women of marriageable age? Are Jewish girls who aren’t frum to be ignored and not be — just as aggressively — helped in becoming Torah and Mitzvos observant?
That’s an obscene idea.July 18, 2017 9:01 am at 9:01 am #1319526ChaverParticipant
Maybe men can start taking 2 wives, that will also help the shidduch crisis.July 18, 2017 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1319865GadolhadorahParticipant
How about stop talking about a phony “shidduch crises” , stop making young women feel like “damaged goods” if they are not married by 18 or 19 yo and want to take a few years to pursue a graduate degree and career, stop creating phony and artificial environments where singles feel pressured to “connect” with ANYONE. Most importantly, start encouraging our young men and women to meet under normal circumstances with due deference to halacha and yiddeshe values, but otherwide engage in normal introductions, connectrions and dating the same way as the large percentage of people do.July 18, 2017 11:45 am at 11:45 am #1319892
Most importantly, start encouraging our young men and women to meet under normal circumstances with due deference to halacha and yiddeshe values
That’s an oxymoron.
otherwide engage in normal introductions, connectrions and dating the same way as the large percentage of people do.
Should we copy their divorce rate too?July 18, 2017 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1319890
A large percentage of people in general society live together before marriage, meet in the pizza shop, are boyfriend/girlfriend for a few years and if they’re lucky get married before getting divorced a few years later when realizing being infatuated with each other even meeting in the pizza shop doesn’t make an appropriate match.July 18, 2017 1:49 pm at 1:49 pm #1320321GadolhadorahParticipant
To Daas Yochid.
You are sadly uninformed…..the rate of divorce in the frum community is rising according to the JSWA statistics (I believe of 2014 or 2013 vintage)……also, they noted, albeit anecdotally, that there are large numbers of frum couples that stay married because they don’t believe that divorce is an option for social/economic reasons and/or the virtual impossibility in some frum communities of remarriage. I personally am not sure that any of these surveys is really reliable but these absurd comparisons to “yenem” are really inappropriate. Our shidduch structures and protocols do not provide for a more natural process of allowing young men and women to explore their options in choosing a lifetime partner to build a bayis neaman b’yisroel.July 18, 2017 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #1320386
the rate of divorce in the frum community is rising according to the JSWA statistics
Compare to the non frum community.
If there were statistics for the communities that use shidduchim vs. those that don’t, I would say compare them.
Yes, there are marriages that should not exist which do because of social norms. There are also many which end up being worthwhile which would have ended in other social contexts.
We’ll never have precise statistics, but I’m quite confident that despite its flaws, our system is the best that exists.July 18, 2017 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1320442
And the JSWA doesn’t have statistics. They proffered their own biased guestimates about the frum community.July 18, 2017 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1320491ChaverParticipant
The divorce rates are going up because people are trying to change the way shidduchim where done.July 19, 2017 12:18 am at 12:18 am #1320635WinnieThePoohParticipant
To address this comment of GadolHaDorah (by the way do you mean to say you are gadol HaDor or Gadol HaTorah, or is your name a combination of both, or is it just a typo?)- : “but otherwide (sic) engage in normal introductions, connectrions (sic) and dating the same way as the large percentage of people do. ”
I assume you are referring to the secular world who do not date shidduch style. When I was single, I would commiserate with a fellow single co-worker, who despite my difficulties finding a shidduch, still told me she was jealous that we had a system in place that made a priority of setting people up. In her secular circles, if you did not meet your future husband by the time you finished college, then it was really hard. She was not the type to hang out in bars, and was not interested in dating guys who wanted a girlfriend but not a wife. Note that in the secular world, there are a lot more “older singles” around, and not always by choice. So as much as our system may be flawed to some degree, it is still better than the alternative.July 19, 2017 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1320643
An out of the box idea for shidduchim is for the Litvish world to adopt the Chasidish shidduch model. Beshows, shidduchim setup by the parents, extensive pre-shidduch research, young marriages, etc.
It works very well for them. Better, I might add, than our own system works for us. And it has yet to be demonstrated, as some posters here are bound to allege, that us adopting the Chasidish shidduch system won’t work out as well for us as it does for them. Despite the naysayers proffering a host of imaginative reasons why it can’t work as well for us as it does for them.July 19, 2017 10:47 am at 10:47 am #1320784mentsch1Participant
My idea would be to put the responsibility on the father rather then the mother.
In my experience, getting a mother to agree to a shidduch for her son is far more difficult then getting the father to agree.
You would think it would be the reverse. After all , I’m sure the moms didn’t appreciate the degree of difficulty in getting a date when they were young.
But the reality is different. It never ceases to boggle my mind how moms consistently put a girls “prettiness” at the top of the list, even when no one would apply that label to them.
I think men would be far more practical and “deal” oriented.
I also think that the if the olam insisted on joint/equal support, it would go a long way to putting women on a more equal footing in the process. My understanding is that this is the way it is in the chassidish velt.July 19, 2017 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1320928ColumbiaGrad17Participant
Abolish the shidduch system and allow individuals to organically meet on their own.July 19, 2017 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1320945👑RebYidd23Participant
Divorce rates are the wrong number. You should be looking at the successful marriage rate. Unfortunately, that is very difficult to calculate.July 19, 2017 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #1320949
Abolish hooking up in the pizza shop, where you can get infatuated with a marriage-incompatible or wrong person, and allow everyone to have a pre-researched shidduch.July 19, 2017 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1320974iacisrmmaParticipant
mentsch1: ” You wrote: “I also think that the if the olam insisted on joint/equal support, ”
Maybe we should go back to 20 or 30 years ago where in the yiddesheh velt people generally married without getting ANY support from their families.
One of the root problems is the ‘support” system. I am not in the position to pay any support. Does that mean that my children don’t deserve a shidduch because I can’t pay support?July 19, 2017 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1321056mentsch1Participant
you are preaching to the choir
but i am being realistic
As for support
I have known many people to solve this issue by repackaging their children’s money
If your daughter worked or has savings from any other place, there is no reason she needs to disclose this Simply have her give you the money and you give it back as “support”July 26, 2017 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1325782HashemisreadingParticipant
Saying the chasidim have a lower divorce rate than the yeshivish world is irrelevant.
What is their happiness rate is the question?July 26, 2017 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1325792ShtikaParticipant
Wouldn’t being allowed to marry many wives solve the shiduch crisis.. i mean rabbeinu Gershons takkanah ended not too long ago, so maybe it’s Hashems way of trying to increase the Jewish population? Chazal say that Moshiach isn’t going to come untill all the souls are brought down to this world. I heard in recently that the Jewish people reaccepted the Takkana but honestly i don’t know what that meansJuly 26, 2017 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1325793
What is their happiness rate is the question?
Very happy. Happier than the average frum marriage.July 26, 2017 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1325798HashemisreadingParticipant
Joseph: how would you know that? what is the happiness measuring stick?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.