August 12, 2023 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #2215354lakewhutParticipant
Are any of the Gedolim addressing the lavish lifestyles that has become more the norm rather than the exception in Lakewood? Tzedakkah is a beautiful thing but is the message that other things are ok to do as long as you’re supporting Yeshivas?August 13, 2023 1:50 am at 1:50 am #2215436ujmParticipant
Is isn’t “more the norm than the exception”. It is the exception. And the problem is universal. In some other places it is more the norm.August 13, 2023 1:51 am at 1:51 am #2215438@fakenewsParticipant
R’ Chaim Epstein spoke very strongly about this.August 13, 2023 1:52 am at 1:52 am #2215441nishtdayngesheftParticipant
Jealousy is really not an attractive trait.August 13, 2023 1:52 am at 1:52 am #2215442QuestionableParticipant
What’s wrong with spending your money how one wants to?.August 13, 2023 1:52 am at 1:52 am #2215443
The last time I checked, it is NOT assur to be wealthy and enjoy the options available within your means as long as you also providing a reasonable amount for tzadakah. Its obviously preferable to not engage in over the top flaunting of your wealth and to maintain a lower profile. Someone showing up the shul/beis medrash in a bright red, $250,000 Lamborghini Huracan might reconsider and realize there are options other than a Honda Odyssey that are still a bit more tzinisudik than a red Lamborghini. Its called common sense and moderation.August 13, 2023 1:53 am at 1:53 am #2215444☕️coffee addictParticipant
There have been people throughout the generations who have been rich and donated money to numerous causes and gedolim have never called them out
This didn’t start in LakewoodAugust 13, 2023 1:57 am at 1:57 am #2215446yungermanSParticipant
It’s very sad to see people living this fantasy life full of unnecessary extras and then everyone wants to know why they have no money to pay their bills for important things when its needed. Like making a family Simcha costs a lot of money or if you really NEED to buy a new used car cause the one you have now is about to die. THESE ARE NEEDS and not extras.
Did you ever think about thinking about the future ahead of time instead of only thinking about now this minute???? Maybe as a responsible mature adult its time to think about you and your family future ahead and not only about today.August 13, 2023 8:47 am at 8:47 am #2215478
Questionable, because chazal say that money is a safe depost from Hashem with which to do HIS will not our own. We are charged with using our money to serve him, b’chol meodecha, in all of your resources. Our lives are meant to be spent this way.
It’s not “ours” to do whatever we want with as long as it’s not an open issur in shulchan aruch.
Might do you well to learn about what chibut hakever is in the sifrei mussar.
Marbeh basar mabeh rima. More flesh, the more worms. Chazal tell us to curtail our desires all the time, but also not to be an ascetic. The rambams “golden path” applies here, to not be a glutton or to live for this world, but also not to harm the body and nefesh with harsh asceticism. The mesilas yeshorim writes that we are to use olam hazeh as an aid to perform mitzvos; chazal say one is praiseworthy if he eats a fatty steak in order to learn better. But if he eats it for no reason other than to satisfy his desires…
There is a mitzvah of kedoshim tehiu, you shall be holy, which means to sanctify one’s self with that which is permitted.August 13, 2023 8:48 am at 8:48 am #2215481
For unrefined amei haaretz, there is an idea of a rov not stressing kedushah to such people if they are going to be miserly, telling poor people to make do with little…better let them enjoy their gashmius if they’ll give more tzedaka and do it right.
Honestly, for an am haaretz or someone who refuses to learn… it’s such a pity that their life is so ruled by taavos.August 13, 2023 8:55 am at 8:55 am #2215514commonsaychelParticipant
What is the difference between Lakewood and any other frum area, BP, Flatbush, Monsey, London etc. etc. all have a wide range of income brackets, why the big deal?August 13, 2023 9:05 am at 9:05 am #2215544
Lakewood is no longer a Torah shtetl.August 13, 2023 9:05 am at 9:05 am #2215543
Wealthy people who eat bread and butter will give the poor people sawdust.August 13, 2023 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #2215596Sam KleinParticipant
Very sad what happened to what was once a beautiful Torah community that people moved to special to devote their life to Torah. Not anymore today. If someone wants to do that today let them move to a more simple town like Detroit or Cleveland etc…. -which still have restaurants and all your Jewish needs taken care of-to attach themselves to living a frum Torah life and raising a Torah family. Lakewood now became Brooklyn NJ….. Very sad what happened to it and it will only be a little longer before people start calling it the 5 towns (referring to Lakewood, Jackson, Toms River, Howell and Manchester or Brick)August 13, 2023 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #2215629Thoughtful ResponseParticipant
There is a Halacha, admittedly that is disputed, that limits tzedakah to 20% of income. However, one should not be gavadik and “show-off” one’s wealth.
A larger issue is that people feel they MUST be wealthy and too many achieve their wealth through less-than honest business practices.
That being said, these questions are almost always raised by the less fortunate seeking to influence the financially successful into giving away much more money.
To those I say the following: do not judge those who are financially successful as you may never know and can never appreciate their intense yetzer hora to use their largess for physical satisfaction. Those who give of their time and money for klal are often fighting an internal battle that we cannot comprehend which is why, despite some obvious character flaws in some of those who make up the rich, we must still appreciate that they are spending time energy and money to benefit the Klal.August 13, 2023 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #2215639get it straightParticipant
you don’t dress up like. your going to Sheva brachos when you visit the grocery store at 8 am in the morning. its a breach in tznius.August 13, 2023 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #2215648
I think this is the first time I agree with you. The proximity to “The City” made the problem. It’s irreversible.August 13, 2023 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #2215699
Thought, a very rich person is not limited by the rule of chomesh, firstly. Secondly, that’s got for tzedaka; using money to build yeshivos, be a zevulun to many many yisachars, klal work, etc…was never under discussion. There’s no question that Hashem wants a wealthy person to use their money for avodas Hashem, and not to own 5 houses, a yacht and a Lamborghini.August 13, 2023 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #2215743neshamalaParticipant
Sam Klein: It seems you don’t realize that for years, tri-state Jews have been importing this same gashmius to places like Detroit and Cleveland.August 14, 2023 1:22 am at 1:22 am #2215755
If you are looking to escape the lavish lifestyles and gashmius of Lakewood while still living among frum yidden, consider Kiryas Joel. Highest poverty rate in New York State, fewer mega mansions and more Odysseys than Teslas but enough shtieblach to daven with a new minyan every shabbos. Sadly, if you are addicted to the Litvish velt of BMG, you might have to get used to a few more shtreimlachAugust 14, 2023 3:03 am at 3:03 am #2215765yungermanSParticipant
Very sad to see more communities going down towards the physical pleasures of this temporary world and throwing away the true ruchnius life we should all be living….
Cleveland and Detroit are still at least 15 to 20 years behind Lakewood in the life of gashmius and pleasures between these places. So at least in Cleveland they can be raised a more Frum Torah life then in Lakewood NJ with all the gashmius there.August 14, 2023 8:12 am at 8:12 am #2215800hujuParticipant
Few things are more interesting than other people’s money.August 14, 2023 10:22 am at 10:22 am #2215861midwesternerParticipant
People are saying mamash shtusim. Lakewood is no longer a Torah Town? Lakewood is the Torah town in America!! True that it is no longer 100% exclusively Torah anymore. That started changing as baalei batim who were machshiv Torah, most of whom were former full time lomdei Torah, chose to settle in the proximity of this place which is chuz la’aretz’s biggest option of a makom Torah. There are literally thousands and thousands of Bnai Torah osek full time in Torah, mitoch dachkus umesiras nefesh. Yes there is wealth there as well. Have an ayin tova about it and you will understand that even the wealthy baal habos largely understands what is important, what he wants to expose his children to, and where and how he wants to raise them. And that leads to some ostentatiousness in neighborhoods near where the true pas bamelech tochal crowd lives. Ashreinu that we have such bnai Torah, and that we have such baalei batim that value it.August 14, 2023 10:22 am at 10:22 am #2215860
Huju: Perhaps we should start a new string of topics under the broad topic of “Learning to Love Your Inner “Gashmius” soliciting creative thoughts about the evils of other yidden having more money and living more lavish lifestyles than you think they should and why those who fargin their success are not always a threat to the social equilibrium of the tzibur. As Herbert Hoover, ZL, once promised , ” A free-range Cornish hen in every pot and a Tesla Model X in every garage”. (Adopted from ad in NYT and Newark Star Ledger, 30 October 1928)August 14, 2023 11:20 am at 11:20 am #2215883
Continuing from where you left off: They changed Lakewood. They wanted to be “close” to the Torah that they so revere, but they brought along all of their gashmius and in doing so they changed the entire Torah Shtetl. If you think differently you don’t remember Lakewood 40 years ago. I do.August 14, 2023 11:21 am at 11:21 am #2215887
Yungerman, while some out of town communities might not have the same issues with gashmius, they are still far, far away from Lakewood in overall Torah learning and shmiras hamitzvos. There’s not really any TV, unfiltered Internet, pritzus, gender mingling, etc… It’s still the most Torah oriented place in the country, with tens of thousands of people living meticulously according to dikdukei halacha.August 14, 2023 11:24 am at 11:24 am #2215891commonsaychelParticipant
@midwestener, absolutely ridicules, according to godaven about half the shuls in the greater Lakewood area are nusach sefard, add to that the nusach ashkinaz shuls who have zero to do with the Yeshiva in Brick, Jackson and Toms River, that will give you about 1/3 of the Olam nominally affiliated with BMG and this have been this way for the past ten years growing more and more on a daily basis.August 14, 2023 11:26 am at 11:26 am #2215901Menachem ShmeiParticipant
Your post sounds like the reaction of a Lubavitcher when someone complains that CH isn’t tzniyusdik. Lol
P.S. I know nothing about Lakewood, as I wrote in this post: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/question-of-an-ignorant-closed-minded-lubavitcher#post-2203613
Just the comparison struck me as funny
If a Lubavitcher would have wrote this, we wouldn’t hear the end of the problems with “Chabad supremacy” 😄August 15, 2023 9:17 am at 9:17 am #2216134akupermaParticipant
IF you have a lavish lifestyle in a community dominated by Bnei Torah (and almost by definition, if you are in kollel or employed as a teacher is a Torah environment, you are unable to live a lavish lifestyle), you are for all purposed volunteering to pick up a large share of the costs of running the community. While we pretend it is not a “tax”, from an economic perspective the frum community is financed by very progressive taxation (even if they are “voluntary” contributions, but since we don’t have an IRS to make sure you pay more than your fair share, we rely on lifestyle to know who gets the bills for communal expenses. This has always been a major check on the frum community’s “1%”.
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