July 12, 2013 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #610039
It’s such a disease. Please, just stop doing it! It distracts people when they are trying to daven and you walk back and forth in front of or next to them. I literally had a guy pacing back and forth right in front of me today when I wasn’t even finished with shmoneh esreh, and he was dragging his feet and making an annoying noise. It’s so inconsiderate! I particularly see this with yeshiva guys all the time. If you are an offender, please, learn some derech eretz.
And while I’m already ranting, if you’re one of those people who can’t get enough of their own voice, please be considerate of others and try not to sing all of davening out loud right in their ear. I can’t count the number of times these backseat chazanim made me lose my spot in davening because I couldn’t hear myself thinking or praying. I do pray loud enough to hear myself, but not loud enough that everyone in the room hears me like these showboats. People are so inconsiderate….July 12, 2013 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #965648
I could not agree more and they don’t just do it during davening.July 12, 2013 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #965649
1) I don’t see anything inherently wrong with pacing during davening- it is usually done in shteibel-type places. Also, to Daven Shmonah Esrei in a place where people could walk right through is not Lechatchillah.
2) I don’t know who people follow nowadays, but the Mishna Berura says that you’re supposed to Daven especially aloud. (except for the Shmonah Esrei, which just you are supposed to hear)
Try to find a Shul that is more grounded, like with pews- you may find yourself more concentration there.
3) Also, let us not forget that we daven most of Tefilla in the plural, so your Tefilos are more accepted that way, together.
Cellphones are a completely seperate story.July 12, 2013 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #965650
Thank you and Yasher Koach, Curiosity. I couldn’t agree with you more. It shows a disregard for anyone else’s tefilah and is extremely inconsiderate.
In addition, I started a thread two years ago listing several other pet peeves of mine which take place in shul. It is:July 12, 2013 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #965651
I agree. Not only the pacing and screaming out the davening, but also during learning. Some guys seem to think that it’s not real learning unless the entire beis medrash, and the whole neighborhood, can hear them screaming, and humming, and signing nuggunim. I can’t concentrate on my davening or learning because of these people. Why does everything in Yiddishkeit have to be so loud??July 12, 2013 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #965652
I always pace.
If you don’t like it, daven at home.July 12, 2013 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #965653
Popa: What if I’m “homless”?July 12, 2013 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #965654
I used to, but then with my new class, no one else did and it looked weird. So i stopped, but if im not the only one i pace cuz thats how i concentrate. There are more important problems with otger people davening to focus on ex. Talking, writing on the desk, notes (ex. MRS ________ HAD A BABY! and the whole class gets up and stands over that desk to see what everyone else is doing thrre nd they see the note, then the teach comes in and everyone runs back and the girl who wrote it tries to earse it as quickly as possible)July 12, 2013 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #965656
But the ppl u talk about sound rlly inconsiderate, i mean if i pace i fo to the back of the room and do it quietly….July 12, 2013 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #965657
Disease? Is there anything inherently wrong with any of those things? If you find those actions disruptive in a specific scenario, then you should definitely ask them to stop. Making a general protest against all such actions, when they are really not as heinous as you make them out to be, doesn’t make sense.
In general, if you find specific actions disturbing in a social setting, the best tactic is to ask the person doing them directly to stop–even if it is a widespread issue that you think needs to be addressed on a larger scale. If you need to address it all over again with a different person, then so be it. If you really want to deal with the issue, that is really the only way (personal experience).July 12, 2013 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #965658
pacing doesnt bother me so much. Singing loudly off key or clapping during learning on the other hand is really annoying.July 12, 2013 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #965659
Oom & pixelate. I would definitely ask them to stop, but it’s very hard to ask someone to stop in a nice way (without offending them) when you can’t use your words. You can’t talk for most of davening, or even signal with your hands if you are in the middle of 18, like I was. Also, I wasn’t in a place where people usually walk in front of, I was at a table in the back of a large beis medrash with a relatively small minyan, so there was plenty of space – the guy just happened to choose to pace right in front of the table I was at. Also, pixelate, there is a difference between out loud and OUT LOUD! And no, the plural nusach of davening and your personal decibal level really have nothing to do with each other.
Yes, there is something inherently wrong with it. You wouldn’t pace right if the president was in the room, so why pace if Hashem, lehavdil, is there? It’s also a mefurash halacha not to walk in front of someone who is davening, though some people say it’s halachicaly not totally assur if you have a table in front of you, but it’s no less distracting. Derech eretz is also a halacha.July 12, 2013 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #965660
“Derech eretz is also a halacha.”
Absolutely, but I am sure that those who do this don’t even realize they are bothering you. Of course you can’t communicate this during davening, but why not discreetly mention it to them afterward, so they will know for next time?July 12, 2013 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #965661
Rabbi Avigdor Miller zt’l once told me, back in 1974:
“Do you know what those people are thinking about [while they are pacing back and forth]? NOTHING.”July 12, 2013 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #965662
With all due respect to R’ Miller (I mean this seriously), how does he or anyone else know what is going on inside people’s heads?July 12, 2013 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #965663
Why is everyone here equating pacing with disregard of kavanah and derech eretz? I very much care about tefillah, value my time in very much, and nonetheless pace in front of my seat to concentrate, especially if everyone else is standing. What’s the problem, concentrate on your own tefillah!July 12, 2013 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #965664
JF02 – Human nature. Men are horrible multitaskers and can’t walk and think at the same time. 😉July 13, 2013 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #965665
Curiosity, clearly the guy was a very rude person.
Also, pixelate, there is a difference between out loud and OUT LOUD!
Ok, but officially, your supposed to Daven P’sukei Dezimra “OUT LOUD”. (Though no one does.)
And no, the plural nusach of davening and your personal decibal level really have nothing to do with each other.
That wasn’t the point I was trying to make; I was trying to say that it is unity that brings our prayers together. Both his rudeness and your complaining equally detracts from The Tzibbur’s tefilah.
borninthebronx, Thank you for sharing that gem.
jewishfeminist02- Rabbi Miller didn’t say something without thinking deeply into the matter beforehand. I presume if you study human psychology and motions you can find the underlying reason for pacing. Google ‘why people pace’July 13, 2013 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #965666
Of course you can’t communicate this during davening . . .
Sure you can – take some old Shabbat parsha sheets, roll them into a tight tube, smack the guy upside the head with the tube, then point to an empty chair. Do it enough and he’ll get the message, or maybe start davening somewhere else. Problem solved, shalom al Yisrael.July 14, 2013 3:09 am at 3:09 am #965667
pixelate, I wasn’t even talking about psukei dzimrah so much. I particularly had in mind the people who decide to lane all of kriyas Shma at the top of their lungs. It’s so distracting.
Also, why do you feel that bringing attention to the fact (complaining?) that a particular mindless and inconsiderate action is disruptive to many people “detracts from the tzibbur’s tfillah”?
ratinalfrummie – maybe it doesn’t bother you when you pace, but I guarantee it distracts some of those sitting around you. They just might be too nice or adel to say anything about it. It’s very inconsiderate to tell people to concentrate on their own davening when you are constantly walking in and out of their field of vision and daled amos. It’s not derech eretz.July 14, 2013 3:14 am at 3:14 am #965668
JF02, the particular guy I mentioned is a guest in town and I don’t want to make him feel unwelcome. If this was a regular guy that I had to deal with day in and day out, I would surely say something.
Takahmamash, there is no other minyan in the area at this particular hour, and if there was, you shouldn’t abandon the place you are used davening in because one guy is being annoying.July 14, 2013 6:07 am at 6:07 am #965669
. . . you shouldn’t abandon the place you are used davening in because one guy is being annoying.
Curiosity, I think you misunderstood me. I meant that the pacing guy would get the message and/or maybe start davening somewhere else, not you.July 14, 2013 6:35 am at 6:35 am #965670
R’ Miller, zt”l, was a very shrewd and keen observer of human nature.July 14, 2013 6:41 am at 6:41 am #965671
Takahmamash. Yes, I misunderstood you, but more importantly, how did you do that quotation block thing?July 14, 2013 8:17 am at 8:17 am #965672
curiosity, I just know that animosity of your fellow prayer-mate is not conducive to prayer. But I guess you were just calling it a ‘disease’ to bring out a point.July 14, 2013 8:49 am at 8:49 am #965673
1. Type blockquote at the beginning of the sentence you’re quoting.
2. Type < in front of the word blockquote.
3. Type > at the end of the word blockquote.
4. Type the sentence you’re quoting.
5. Type blockquote at the end of the sentence you’re quoting.
2. Type </ in front of the word blockquote.
3. Type > at the end of the word blockquote.July 14, 2013 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #965674
This used to bother me too. So I donated a set of leg chains for each seat in the shul and for every 3 feet of wall space (installation included). But the gabboim refused to do their part of attaching them to the shul patrons. So I ended up following popas advice.July 14, 2013 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #965675
It’s very important to pace yourself while Davening otherwise you can fall behind and lose out on tefillah betzibur.July 14, 2013 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #965676
I think from now on I’m just going to stick my foot out and trip the pacer… and be laning kriyas shma really loud while doing it.July 14, 2013 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #965677
curiosity, I just got your title and subtitle! very clever!July 15, 2013 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #965678
Thanks.July 16, 2013 7:12 am at 7:12 am #965679
Origin of the Walkie Talkie
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