January 9, 2013 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #607748blackhatwannabeParticipant
I was asked to be a panim chadashos at a sheva berachos. However,I don’t know the chassan or kallah. Does the panim chadashos have to be someone who will mesameach the chassan and kallah with their presence at sheva berachos or can it be just any random person who wasn’t at the wedding? Is one required to have a panim chadashos or is it just a minhag?January 9, 2013 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #918607
Interesting. You probably don’t count in this case. It has to be someone that the Chassan and/or Kallah (see Pischei T’shuvah EH 62:2; I think he’s Machmir at the end about the Kallah’s friends but I remember he brought sources both ways) would Davka be very happy to see. Panim Chadashos is Me’akev having Sheva Brachos Afilu B’dieved.January 9, 2013 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #918608old manParticipant
I respectfully disagree. First of all, Rashi says specifically that one who was not there the previous day is panim chadashos. He makes no other stipulations.
Furthermore, in my opinion, there are too many interpretations regarding panim chadashos to call it halachah. It is minhag. The prevailing minhag is that you do count. Besides, you may not yet know the chosson and kallah, but you’ll get to meet them. I’m sure they will be happy to meet someone new, and that is enough l’samcham. Win-win. Go and have a good time.January 9, 2013 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #918609lost in EuropeParticipant
When I married off my kids, I always felt bad inviting “panim chadoshos” to the sheva brochos. Doesn’t he think, “why wasn’t I invited to the wedding? Am I just good for the sheva brochos?”January 9, 2013 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #918611ToiParticipant
I believe I heard from my rebbe that ponim chadashos is mi’akev, and has to be someone who matters to chosson or kallah.January 10, 2013 12:09 am at 12:09 am #918612
Old man: While I very much respect your opinion, I’m pretty sure that what I said is explicitly in the Shulchan Aruch E”H 62 (I think). I will double-check later though when I get a chance.January 10, 2013 12:20 am at 12:20 am #918613KovodHabriyosMember
What if the ponim chodesh is Rav Chaim Kanievsky shlit”a, who the choson and kallah never met before. Is that me’akev?
What if the ponim chodesh is a family friend of the Kallah, but the Chosson never met him before?
Does the ponim chodesh have to be male?January 10, 2013 1:03 am at 1:03 am #918614yaff80Participant
is the fact that you enable the sheva brachos to be recited not enough to make the new couple happy, thereby completeing the requirement of the panim chadashos being mesameach chasan vkala? (a bit like ba’in k’achas)January 10, 2013 1:34 am at 1:34 am #918615oomisParticipant
Panim chadoshos are exactly that. New faces. they can be new because they are strangers, or new because they were unable to be mesameach at the actual chasunah. Minhag or Halacha, it is always nice to be machnis orchim on behalf of the chosson and kallah.January 10, 2013 2:01 am at 2:01 am #918616
I just thought of a REALLY stupid question: The words “ponim chadoshos” (new faces)is PLURAL, so why aren’t TWO p.c.’s required?????January 10, 2013 2:06 am at 2:06 am #918617popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Because a person has plural ????.January 10, 2013 2:08 am at 2:08 am #918618
Gornit: Because a person doesn’t have one face. It’s like any doubled body part in Hebrew. Panim just means one person’s face.
Kovod Habriyos: I believe both of those cases are discussed in the Pischei T’shuvah on E”H there.January 10, 2013 2:16 am at 2:16 am #918619KovodHabriyosMember
Sam2: I gave three cases.January 10, 2013 2:28 am at 2:28 am #918620
The second and third are both discussed in the same Pischei T’shuvah that I referenced above.January 10, 2013 3:41 am at 3:41 am #918621
I asked my LOR if P.C. is plural why not require 2 P.C.’s? He answered (are you sitting down?):
Although most poskin say one is enogh, indeed some hold you need TWO P.C.”s (told me Tshuvas Avrohom ben HaRambam s. 86 & s. 100 in name of his father the Rambam holds this)!
Then he told me something weirder: In Tshuvas Ma’ri Halevi (brother of Turei Zohov) s. 37 says that tow P.C.’s are enough only if the two P.C.’s are very choshov [like R’ kavevsky and R’ Shtienman], but if the P.C. are regular people – TEN are required!!
To me, that is kind of “interesting”.January 10, 2013 3:49 am at 3:49 am #918622
KovodHabriyos, my LOR says P.C.’s gotta be male, as the poskin say, because women aren’t part of minyan, but then he told me something wild and strange:
The Chasam Sofer on Kesubos 7b D”H B’makhelos says: a woman, slave or minor children are also valid P.C.’s!!!!!! In fact, the K’hilas Yaakov on Kesubos (Likutim) s. 1 writes that if P.C. is to add simcha to chosson and kalah, then a minor child qualifies!!!
But my LOR made clear that the poskin do not follow these views.
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