Parking IN driveway

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  • #1810782

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    If someone parks in your driveway without permission to take care of errands in the area. Is it right for you to spray paint on the guy’s window? Can you deflate a tire? Should you ignore it and let him stay in your driveway?

    #1810845

    catch yourself
    Participant

    Leave a note explaining to him that he parked in your private property, which is both illegal and asur. Inform him that you have taken down his license plate number, and if he does it again you will have him towed at his expense.

    In the meantime, if you need to park, you can block him in.

    #1810870

    funnybone
    Participant

    What he is doing is wrong. Moral and halacha wrong. If you damage his car you are liable for damages. If you have it towed you might have issue with mesirah. You are asking complicated halacha questions from unknown people who may or may not be qualified to answer this question. If you ask your Rav, please let us know what he says.

    #1810874

    banjobob
    Participant

    slashing tires, and spray painting the window is only a mild punishment. I think you should start a protest around his car, burn dumpsters, and sit in front of the driveway. basically I think you start a hafgana that would make the Israelies proud!!

    #1810872

    The little I know
    Participant

    Spray painting his window is destructive damage. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Deflating a tire will irritate the owner of the car, but will insure that his car remains there longer – counter productive.

    Leave the note, and feel free to block him in – that space belongs to you.

    #1810958

    agittayid
    Participant

    Call 311 and report that a car is blocking your driveway and ask a police car to respond. You can also ask a passing police car or traffic enforcement agent to stop. You will be asked to show proof that this is your address.
    Once the car is ticketed, the policeman will tell you that you can call a tow truck and have the vehicle towed away at the owner’s expense.
    Check with the officer who responds that this information is still correct.

    #1810900

    Trachtgeet
    Participant

    Honestly what would you do if you find a strangers car parked in your driveway?

    #1810939

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @funnybone
    If the offender was parked in the street blocking your driveway and you called the police who had it towed, then mesirah might be an issue.
    BUT, if the car, as the OP wrote, is parked in your driveway on your private land, then you as the owner van call a tow company to have it taken away at the offender’s expense. You have not turned the offender over to a non-rabbinic authority (police, secular courts). The owner of private property has the right to have a car towed.

    AND, yes I have checked this out with my Rav. I am a property owner and have had problems with people parking on my land when they are not tenants, customers or guests. I have the right to tow, I don’t need to call the [police. The tow companies must report in a timely manner to the police so if the towed party calls in a stolen car report it can be checked against tow lists.

    #1810975

    agittayid
    Participant

    A homeowner can call the police if access to his driveway is blocked. The police can then issue a ticket.
    A car that is parked on private property without permission is another matter.

    #1810967

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Obviously, you cannot purposely damage or vandalize an illegally parked car but you certainly have a legal right to have that car towed so you can access your own driveway. Also, how would you know if the owner of that car is a yid with regard to any concerns over mesirah. Most state license plates don’t indicate that the owner has milah.

    #1811313

    yehudayona
    Participant

    Gadol. a lot of people have magnets or bumper stickers that are strong evidence that the owner is Jewish. Sometimes there might be a sefer on the seat or dashboard.

    #1811340

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Yehudahyona: If you get home at night and need to get into your driveway or if your wife needs to get the car out of the garage to pick up the kids at school, you generally don’t have the time or interest to research the ownership of the vehicle. Most frum yidden don’t have visible bumper stickers identifying them as such, for obvious reasons. Anyone with the chutzpah to park in rare case of an emergency, it would take the car=owner only a few seconds to leave a note on the windshield to explain the circumstances and a telephone number where the owner can be reached someone else’s driveway is either a fool or simply doesn’t care about the consequences. In the or letting the homeowner know that the keys are under the floormat in case it has to be moved. As other posters have noted, calling a tow company to move an illegally parked car from your driveway won’t place the owner in jail….just a trip to the impoundment lot to pick up his/her car.

    #1811348

    Mistykins
    Participant

    I love how the greatest concern is mesirah. It’s okay to call a tow truck if we don’t involve the police. No worries that a frum yid is paying 5 tuitions and has no money to spend on towing fees.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong for calling. Trust me, I would do the same, especially to repeat offenders. I’m just saying that if your only consideration is whether you’re harming a goy or fellow yidden, you’re hurting the community.

    #1811424

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @mistykins
    Try reading the OP.
    Nowhere does it state that the offender is Jewish never mind a frum yid with 5 kids struggling to pay tuition.

    NO EXCUSES for bad behavior. Can’t afford a tow, don’t park illegally in someone else’s driveway. AGAIN, the OP says in the driveway, not on the street blocking the driveway.

    I’ve posted before that we also have a house in Brooklyn (inherited from grandparents) that we use occasionally. We had to put a locked gate across the driveway because when we occasionally showed up to use the house someone else would be parked on our land. Neighbors on the block knew we weren’t there full time and the assorted relatives that were allowed to live there while attending college or yeshiva didn’t have cars.

    #1812174

    yehudayona
    Participant

    CTL, you have a driveway that you’re not using and you won’t let anyone else use? Isn’t that midas S’dom?

    #1812221

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @yehudayona

    I didn’t not say I don’t use the driveway. I use it occasionally. I expect my private property to be available when W want to use it. I pay the taxes and insurance and have not given rishus to others to use it.
    Your logic would say that when I am not in residence at my Florida home a stranger could use that. Nonsense!
    BTW, I expect to use the Brooklyn house next Wednesday, as I prefer to be where businesses are open in 12/25 than in small town CT.

    #1812285

    catch yourself
    Participant

    @ctlawyer
    I often disagree with you, but I think here you are right on the money. A person being in a difficult financial position does not justify bad behavior. You are well within your rights to expect your own driveway to be available whenever you want without having to give prior notice.
    Even if it was a driveway which you never use or intend to use, there could also be the issue of שחרוריתא דאשייתא which may remove this from מדת סדום, depending on the exact circumstances.

    @mistykins
    Someone I know lives very close to one of the most heavily attended Shuls in New York, and people regularly park in his driveway without permission, with the rationalization that, “I just have to run in for Mincha – it’s only fifteen minutes!” The practical result is that he doesn’t really have a driveway. It’s safe to assume (based on רוב) that most of the people parking there are struggling financially. Does this justify what has been done to my friend? To me, this sounds awfully similar to the type of theft that was popular during the דור המבול.

    #1812366

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Actually the basic halacha is that yes, when you are not in Florida you have to let others use your house there, provided they keep it in good condition and vacate it as soon as you need it. I would say that nowadays this halacha is not necessarily applicable, because we have many things in our houses, some of which are fragile, and some of which are personal, so having strangers squatting there does cost us something, if only menuchas hanefesh. Whereas in chazal;’s time a house was basically a shell, and if you were not there there was no reason not to let others use it. (Which is why in their days there was no need for Pesach cleaning; bedikas chometz was the cleaning.)

    As for the driveway, you could make it known on your block that people are free to use your driveway, but they must be ready to move their cars at a moment’s notice. If you wanted to be nice you could even create a Whatsapp group for the block, and post on it when you leave CT, so whoever’s parked in your driveway has over an hour’s notice to move.

    #1831377

    ChananiaL
    Participant

    @ yehudayona If someone wants to use CTLawyer’s house when he is not in Florida, they are required to pay market rate rent. Same applies to the driveway. By your logic every tenant is exempt from rent because the landlord isn’t using the apartment anyway.

    #1831376

    ChananiaL
    Participant

    @milhouse If someone wants to use the house when CTLawyer is not in Florida, they are expected to pay market rate rent. By your logic every tenant is exempt from paying rent because the landlord isn’t using the apartment anyways.

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