April 13, 2015 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #615475🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
A while ago, a police car drove by while I was at the side of the road dropping off a friend. I guess he took down my plate number, because I got notice of an unpaid parking ticket. I tried fighting it by saying the truth, but I was told I need evidence that I was not parked. Huh? What evidence would I have? Shouldn’t the police need evidence of my guilt? I guess it’s time to get a dashboard cam and back up nightly… Innocent until proven guilty is no longer standard policy in this country.April 13, 2015 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #1072999☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Oh, boy, is that frustrating. I’ve had similar happen to me a number of times.
You should definitely appeal.
Technically, you can probably insist on a hearing with the accusing officer there. It’s probably not worth your time.
Chalk it up to the cost of owning a car.April 13, 2015 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1073000screwdriverdelightParticipant
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. (George Orwell, Animal Farm)
It’s my motto and it explains everything in the world.April 13, 2015 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1073001akupermaParticipant
The policeman is a witness and is testifying of what he claims he saw. You would probably be advised to come into court with witnesses that you were only stopped (and confirming that stopping was allowed). The officers’ testimony/affidavit is admissable evidence. That they delay notifying you of the charges until it will be hard to respond might violate due process, but they’ve yet to establish a need to email or text you in real time.
In states (such as New York), the court only has to decide if it is more likely that not that the officer was correct (in states in which all traffic offenses are criminal, the burden proof if innocent until proven guilty beyond a resonable doubt).April 13, 2015 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1073002
You need a dashboard cam.April 13, 2015 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1073003
Were you in a bus stop or other no standing zones?April 13, 2015 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1073004🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
It was not a bus stop, it was a no standing zone. According to driving regulations, it is permitted to drop off a passenger in a no standing zone. Only if it says no stopping can you not stop to drop off passengers.April 13, 2015 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #1073005☕️coffee addictParticipant
Chalk it up to the cost of owning a car.
i actually say “chalk it up to living in new york”April 14, 2015 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1073006shpitzfrumMember
they really should start to crack down on these cops who are just born losersApril 14, 2015 2:48 am at 2:48 am #1073007☕️coffee addictParticipant
whats the difference between stopping and standing
nyc.gov says by no standing “When standing is prohibited by signs or rules, no person shall stop a vehicle, attended or unattended, except temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in expeditiously receiving or discharging passengers.”
my understanding of the difference (i could be wrong) is standing is putting the car in park, whereas stopping is just pressing the brake, and the way the cop can tell is if your brake lights are on or notApril 14, 2015 3:57 am at 3:57 am #1073010charliehallParticipant
“chalk it up to living in new york”
It is worth noting one of the conclusions of the Justice Department’s report on the Ferguson, MO police department:
I note that a lot of commenters here hate Eric Holder. But he got that one right. New York City is no different but the Justice Department has not investigated. Perhaps his successor can take some action. Hopefully it won’t require riots.
The purposes of parking fines are twofold: (1) Public safety, such as the need to prohibit parking too close to a corner of an intersection or too close to a fire hydrant. Those fines should be higher than they are today! (2) Making sure that the system of parking works for all, including the need to get the streets cleaned at least weekly, to make sure that there is turnover in business districts, and to prevent traffic tie-ups from things like double parking. Those fines could be cut by 2/3 in most of the city. But it is the fines that keep property taxes low!
Why hasn’t some mayoral candidate made this an issue?
(And I don’t blame the police or meter maids. They are merely enforcing what the Mayor and City Council have made into law.)April 14, 2015 3:59 am at 3:59 am #1073011charliehallParticipant
“in states in which all traffic offenses are criminal”
About the only part of the Bill of Rights that the courts have not “incorporated” to apply to states (and local governments) is the right of a jury trial in a civil case such as a parking ticket. It is time for someone to take this on and invite the Supreme Court to end this inconsistency.April 14, 2015 8:53 am at 8:53 am #1073013BarryLS1Participant
Innocent until proven guilty? When I lived in NY, quite a while ago, I had a friend who worked for Parking Violations. He said that they had a higher conviction rate than the old Soviet Union.April 14, 2015 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1073015Yayin Yashan B’Kli ChadashParticipant
To be fair, the mini-meter system is the best thing to happen for fighting parking tickets in a long time. (Good things tend not to happen when it comes to fighting tickets).April 14, 2015 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1073016
The fines should be $1,000 for all the people who routinely double park on 13 avenue ( Boro Park ), Coney island Ave ( Midwood ) and Central ave ( Five Towns ). These inconsiderate people block parked cars from leaving and force drivers to weave back and forth to get around them ( while also trying to avoid jaywalking pedestrian )April 14, 2015 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1073017akupermaParticipant
charliehall: The right to jury trial is tied to rights that existed under the English common law, and administrative fines were never considered criminal and were never involved in actions under common law – meaning there never was a jury right to be preserved.
It isn’t that hard to contest a ticket but many people don’t for several reasons including it isn’t worth the trouble (easier to pay the fine), and that they are probably guilty. In all fairness, New Yorkers are infamous for all sorts of parking violations so it isn’t hard for the authorities to find people to ticket. As was the case in Ferguson, the reason most people are complaining about the police is that the police usually persecute guilty people and the guilty people (the thief who was shot in Missouri, the illegally parked New Yorkers, etc.) don’t like it.April 15, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1073018cherrybimParticipant
The first thing (and most difficult) thing to do when you get a summons for any kind of violation is to pay it immediately. This will stop any increases in fines which will accrue like a cancer. In all probability, at the end of the day, you won’t fight the summons.
And if you do, you will likely lose.
It is not worth the many times the ticket original amount that you will end up paying (not to mention the tire boot and towing of your car).
You can always fight your case after you pay and get a refund in the unlikelihood that you win.April 16, 2015 1:45 am at 1:45 am #1073019
The parking system in NY, especially in heavily frum areas, is broken since there are too many cars and too few parking spots.April 16, 2015 5:44 am at 5:44 am #1073020–Participant
in states in which all traffic offenses are criminal
A parking violations is not a traffic offence?April 16, 2015 7:33 am at 7:33 am #1073021owlParticipant
You got it. In traffic court, you are guilty until proven innocent. They don’t follow the Constitution. This happens often in the USA. The US isn’t supposed to go to war without a declaration of war by Congress. Last time that happened? Dec. 8 1941. The Korean and Vietnam wars, where more bombs were dropped than in WWII, were in violation of the Constitution.
It is possible that federal income tax violates it too. Search the web for more info on that.April 17, 2015 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1073022Rebbe YidParticipant
“The US isn’t supposed to go to war without a declaration of war by Congress.”
So, it doesn’t actually say that in the US Constitution. It says Congress has the power to declare war; that’s not the same thing as saying that US armed forces can’t go into battle without such a declaration
“The US isn’t supposed to go to war without a declaration of war by Congress.”
I searched the web and found all sorts of interesting things. Like, the Zionists perpetrated 9/11. And space aliens rule France. And income tax in unconstitutional. But I also found something else interesting–99.99% of legal scholars disagree.April 17, 2015 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1073023WolfishMusingsParticipant
In traffic court, you are guilty until proven innocent. They don’t follow the Constitution.
That only applies to criminal cases. In civil cases, the burden of proof is a preponderance of the evidence. This applies to all civil cases. For example, if I sue you for damages, I don’t have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did it — I only need to prove that it’s more likely that you are responsible. The burden of proof is higher for criminal cases because there you have the potential to lose your liberty (or life). That does not exist in civil cases.
It is possible that federal income tax violates it too. Search the web for more info on that.
No, it’s not. Income taxes are authorized by the 16th Amendment to the Constitution and the Supreme Court (who are the final arbiters of what the Constitution says) have consistently shot down all the silly tax-protester arguments.
The WolfApril 17, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1073024WolfishMusingsParticipant
And space aliens rule France.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
You got that all wrong. It’s the *British* Royal Family that are secretly lizard people from space.
The WolfApril 17, 2015 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #1073025
Joseph, that’s because Borough Park has been so overbuilt in the last 40 years. If you look at old pictures from the 40’s and 50’s, 49 street between 13th and 14th ave was lined with big one family homes with porches and driveways. They’ve all been replaced by apartment houses and multifamily attached houses. That’s been the history of many of the side streets. A lot more people, same curb spaceApril 17, 2015 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1073026
lc: So what can be done about it now? The housing isn’t going to be knocked down. Is there any way to avoid the double parking (whether someone’s waiting in the car or otherwise) considering there’s physically nowhere to park?April 19, 2015 1:16 am at 1:16 am #1073027
What they need is off street parking garages. When the Eitz Chaim Yeshiva building was torn down, there was talk of putting in a municipal parking lot. Instead, it was replaced with another strip of stores. There is no place to put in a lot now, so I don’t think there is a solutionApril 19, 2015 1:51 am at 1:51 am #1073028
If there’s no solution, you can’t blame the double parkers who have nowhere to park.April 19, 2015 2:28 am at 2:28 am #1073029
I still can as it is illegal and selfishApril 19, 2015 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1073030yehudayonaParticipant
scared driver delight: The quotation long predates George Orwell. Try Lord Acton in 1887.April 20, 2015 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1073031nfgo3Member
The presumption of innocence applies to criminal charges, not simple violations like parking tickets. That is not to say that unwarranted parking tickets are not annoying, but your life and freedom are not at stake for an undeserved parking ticket.April 20, 2015 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1073032
So then it is perfectly legal to ticket everybody who doesn’t have a dashboard cam?April 21, 2015 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1073033mewhoParticipant
if you believe you are in the right then bring your proof and fight it in court.April 21, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1073034
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