Patronized for wearing a mask

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  • #1901078
    2scents
    Participant

    Mrs Plony,

    “2cents, please be nice. Reb Eliezer’s argument did have substance.”

    Its great to have a decent discussion with a focus on substance and content, but I try to stay away from silly arguments such as this.

    “Your post is not worth 2scents. ”

    The content of his post was already addressed by another poster earlier.

    The point about doctors having experience in infectious and disease, that is about assessing and treating not about how to control a pandemic. As has been evident by a lack of clarity from public and private health officials on what actions to do that would contain the virus, and despite taking a number of measures a lot of areas such as NY and EY have been hit extremely hard.

    #1901177
    Health
    Participant

    se2015 -“commented that trump supporters have blind belief in positions he takes (hence obsession with hcq despite global medical consensus that it is ineffective or at least that potentials risks outweigh potential benefits
    I said he should at least stop lying to his supporters. You don’t calm a nation in crisis by denying the severity of the crisis. That leads to reckless behavior, especially by people who are inclined to believe him.”

    I answered this already. Most Trumpers think for ourselves:
    “The biggest Joke is – I don’t hang on to every word he says.
    The main ones who do that are Anti- Trumpers. They are looking to find anything wrong that he says. Most Pro-Trumpers have better things to do.
    We are Not like the DemonCrat sheep, we actually think for ourselves!”

    We don’t Rely on Trump to be our Mommy!
    Another Joke is – if you Need a Mommy to tell you what to do in Life – Biden can’t even think for Himself, let alone the Whole Country!
    FYI, I haven’t seen any Medical Evidence that HCQ + Zinc doesn’t work for Covid19, when started within a Few Days.
    So you Anti – Trumpers can Keep on Dreaming!

    #1901287
    Milhouse
    Participant

    Mrs Plony: ” I recall a chapter in A House Full of Chessed where Rebbetzin Machlis kept bringing her baby to have his bilirubin tested so he could have his circumcision on the eighth day, and miraculously his levels fell to an acceptable number just in time”

    She was getting his bilurubin tested so the MOHEL would agree to do the bris. As far as every doctor in the world is concerned this obsession with jaundice is one big narishkeit, and there’s no reason not to circumcise a baby who’s bright yellow.

    #1901288
    Milhouse
    Participant

    “Reb Eliezer”, of course I saw the article you linked. I commented on it. It was FALSE the first time, and it’s still FALSE. It’s a stupid amhoratzus, nothing more. But now I know that you never bothered to look the BHL up yourself, which means it’s dishonest of you to pretend to quote it. If you got the information from a YWN article then that is your source, not the BHL. To quote a source you have to have seen it yourself.

    #1901289
    Milhouse
    Participant

    “Reb Eliezer”, you’re also wrong about doctors being able to pasken to eat on Yom Kippur. NO DOCTOR HAS THE RIGHT TO GIVE A HETER TO EAT. If you need a heter you must ask a ROV, not a doctor. The ROV should ask the doctor for his opinion, and then decide the halocho taking into account what the doctor says. But the doctor himself cannot pasken, and you cannot eat just because the doctor said so.

    #1901290
    Milhouse
    Participant

    Oh, and by the way, the story with Reb Yisroel Salanter is a bobbe maiseh. It never happened, and you certainly can’t derive any halochos from it.

    #1901378
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    milhouse, You seem to know everything better than anyone else, so your gaava causes you to know less. I saw the BHL and Rav Chaim Shlita interprets it as the camphor was placed in a mask to hold it, but the mask itself currently is certainly beneficial. In our shul in Staten Island, no mask, no attendance. If you want to be easily mekayem the mitzva of love you neighbor like yourself, wear a mask, so not to infect others.

    #1901386
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    In SA O’CH 618,1 above mentions even a non-jewish doctor (being an expert in the field) we can rely on. It does not mention anywhere a Rav.

    #1901393
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Before giving the sick to eat, he should be reminded by ‘anyone’ that today is Yom Kippur.

    #1901437
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health

    I haven’t seen any Medical Evidence that HCQ + Zinc doesn’t work for Covid19, when started within a Few Days.

    I haven’t seen any evidence that rubbing raw beets between your toes doesn’t work for Covid19 when started within a Few Days.

    #1901441
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    milhouse, the doctor does not give a heter to eat on Yom Kippur. Once he says that it is a sakonas nefoshas, it automatically becomes mutar.

    #1901444
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Yserbus, I applaud you. Bravo!

    #1901446
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    A doctor cannot pasken that it has the halachik status of sakanas nefashos. I had family members who had chronic illnesses and each fast they would speak to the doctor and then relay the doctors words to the rav for a psak. There were times when the rav spoke to the doctor directly. Every time you bring this up it surprises me.

    #1901457
    Health
    Participant

    Milhouse -“If we were to ask the doctors there would be no such thing as a delayed bris for yellowness, and the whole halacha about it would have been long forgotten. We ask only a mohel who has received the tradition from the mohel who trained him, and we disregard the unanimous advice of all doctors that postnatal jaundice is no reason to delay circumcision.”

    Quite Frankly – Your post is One of the Most Ignorant I’ve ever seen in the CR!
    Do you know why people with Symptoms go to Medical Prof.?

    Let’s start with Neonatal Jaundice:
    “we disregard the unanimous advice of all doctors that postnatal jaundice is no reason to delay circumcision.”
    This is the Most Absurd Post that I’ve seen in the CR for a long Time!

    I personally went to the Mohel first to check out how Yellow the baby is.
    The Mohel decides what to do Next.
    Sometime they say wait; sometimes they say go to your doctor or hospital.

    There are many Types of Neonatal Jaundice.
    So NO Med. Prof. will say circumcize w/o doing Testing First!

    From Healthline:
    “A baby whose blood type isn’t compatible with that of their mother can develop a buildup of antibodies that can destroy their red blood cells and cause a sudden rise in bilirubin levels.

    Other causes of newborn jaundice include:
    bruising at birth or other internal bleeding
    liver problems
    an infection
    an enzyme deficiency
    an abnormality in your baby’s red blood cells
    What are the symptoms of newborn jaundice?
    The first sign of jaundice is a yellowing of a baby’s skin and eyes. The yellowing may begin within 2 to 4 days after birth and may start in the face before spreading down across the body.
    Bilirubin levels typically peak between 3 to 7 days after birth.
    When to call a doctor:
    Most cases of jaundice are normal, but sometimes jaundice can indicate an underlying medical condition. Severe jaundice also increases the risk of bilirubin passing into the brain, which can cause permanent brain damage.
    Contact your doctor if you notice the following symptoms:
    The jaundice spreads or becomes more intense.
    Your baby develops a fever over 100°F (38°C).
    Your baby’s yellow coloring deepens.
    Your baby feeds poorly, appears listless or lethargic, and makes high-pitched cries.”

    #1901462
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The doctor as paskened in SA above recognizes if the person is even at a safek life and death status and I don’t see anywhere a Rav required to make the decision. Please someone point out a posek (gadol) who requires that. Chronic is a long duration illness so it needs a halachic decision whether one can fast.

    #1901463
    Health
    Participant

    Yeserbius123 -“I haven’t seen any evidence that rubbing raw beets between your toes doesn’t work for Covid19 when started within a Few Days.”

    If you C’V get Covid19, so go for your Tx. Let’s know the Results.
    But I tell e/o in the High-risk category to take HCQ + Zinc, if they can get it.

    Btw, I’m Not surprised that YWN and other Frum websites are posting Every Week, Lo Aleinu, deaths from Covid19, they Must have Done your Treatment!

    #1901495
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Based on doctor, you feed a person a little and see how they react whether he says I need more. If he says no, you feed him another small amount in the specified time. If he says yes, you feed him normally.

    #1902811
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health There is a lot of evidence that HCQ doesn’t work. There is no evidence that HCQ+Zinc works. Baruch Hashem doctors have found regimes and treatments, including the drug Remdesivir, that there are mountains of data towards their effectiveness. So much so that the US has one of the lowest rates of death for people with COVID-19 in the world.

    But do you know what’s more effective? Not getting it in the first place! Dying is only the worst thing that can happen to a person, but there are still other bad things that can happen. Many individuals with COVID-19 still experience horrific symptoms, some that last for months or are even permanent.

    Even though US doctors have become experts at staving off people from dying of COVID-19, the US still has one of the worst death rates in the world because so many people have got the virus. And hospitals are still full of not-dead people too sick to breath on their own.

    #1902876
    Health
    Participant

    Yeserbius123 -“There is a lot of evidence that HCQ doesn’t work.”

    It doesn’t work by itself.

    “There is no evidence that HCQ+Zinc works”

    That’s a matter of opinion. That’s the Gov. opinion. They are probably Wrong!
    There are many doctors and others that say it works.

    “But do you know what’s more effective? Not getting it in the first place!”

    Tell that to NY area Jews & Israeli Jews.
    I was out yesterday in Lakewood & almost no one was wearing Masks.

    #1903020
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health

    Gevald! Are you serious? No one wearing masks? Mistoma, you’re talking about outside, presumably they put them on when they went in where the danger is much greater. So many Yeshivas had to close because of COVID spreading from unmasked talmidim. We all had a great Rosh Hashana and hopefully our tefilos went to Hashem’s ears to remove this machla of COVID-19 so people can stop getting sick and schools, shuls, Bais Yaakovs, batei midrashim, and Yeshivos no longer have to close to prevent people from getting sick.

    HCQ+Zinc may work or it may not, but COVID-19 is still a deadly virus and we shouldn’t have to be somech on medicine like Remedisvir or ventilators. Especially when people fall gravely ill before they even know that they have it.

    #1903032
    Health
    Participant

    Yeserbius123 -“Mistoma, you’re talking about outside, presumably they put them on when they went in where the danger is much greater”

    Sheker right after Rosh Hashana! I was in stores too. The ones Not wearing them – Didn’t put them on when they went inside.
    They had a letter from all the Docs, but it seems every store/Shul makes their own Rules. E/o knows the Matzev better than the Next Guy!

    #1903119
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health

    I feel terrible about that. There are so many people so sick that they can’t wear masks? Why davka Lakewood? Is there a lot of asthmatic people there?

    I mean, considering Lakewood Rabbonim hold that people should follow the advice of Dr. Shanick and wear masks indoors, this must be something serious if so many unhealthy people who cannot wear masks are being forced to leave their homes in the midst of a pandemic!

    Just last week we heard stories of previously healthy people who are now gravely ill due to catching COVID-19. Baruch Hashem it seems we will not have a repeat of six months ago will nebech so many meisim. Hashem has given doctors the knowledge how to treat most patients.

    But we still have to be vigilant shomrim and make sure we keep our distance and wear masks! We never know if we may have COVID and so we should try as hard as possible to make sure people around us don’t C”V end up in the hospital medicated.

    הכל בידי שמים חוץ מצינים פחים

    Everything comes from Hashem. But if we aren’t watching our own health and the health of our chaveirim, then the sickness comes from the hands of Man.

    #1903205
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    This has become a real phenomenon. There have been mask attacks in real life. I fail to see the point in it. Maybe It has become like a tribal symbol.

    #1903201
    Health
    Participant

    Yeserbius123 -“this must be something serious if so many unhealthy people who cannot wear masks are being forced to leave their homes in the midst of a pandemic!”

    Who said they are Unhealthy?!?
    They just don’t want to Wear them.
    They decided that they know better than the Medical Professionals.

    #1903203
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,

    The story of Rav Yisrael Salanter is recorded in seforim.

    #1903232
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @n0mesorah What is a mask attack?

    @Health No I think you’re mistaken. Lakewood is a town of yungerleit and Rebbeim, not of medical professionals, certainly not people who know more about medicine than medical professionals. The people you saw must have been sick. Healthy people who can wear a mask, especially Bnei Torah, aren’t so callous about other people’s lives to walk around without a mask on. Could you imagine what would happen if we gave one hundred people a gun but only one was loaded? Most people are pretty sure their gun doesn’t have real bullets, and even if it did, it’s not likely they would hit someone, and even if it did, most gunshot victims survive, right? I don’t see Lakewood people doing that, so I have a hard time processing what you saw.

    What do you think about it?

    #1903269
    Health
    Participant

    Yeserbius123 -“Lakewood is a town of yungerleit and Rebbeim, not of medical professionals, certainly not people who know more about medicine than medical professionals”

    Not anymore. It’s just like BP, Willy, Monsey.
    It has changed the last 30 years.

    “aren’t so callous about other people’s lives to walk around without a mask on”

    They do it because they are Ignorant.
    Not because they want to be Callous!

    #1903273
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Yserbius,

    Being attacked for wearing a mask.

    #1903301
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @Health That’s really hard to hear. I feel comforted, as I’m sure do you, when I walk into shul and see everyone wearing masks. Seeing that I know that even if someone chas v’Shalom, is sick (with or without showing symptoms) it’s very unlikely they will get me sick. Ignorant people walking around without masks make me nervous, how many people could they unknowingly infect? It’s horrible! And like you said before, sure there’s medicine to treat it, but why should we have to rely on getting hospitalized when there’s a perfectly cheap, safe, reasonable, and more effective method?

    @n0mesorah People don’t like having their reality questioned. If they decide not to wear a mask, they are afraid when they hear the reality that they are a danger to others. So they attack.

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