January 4, 2022 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #2048020
we ordered a skip to do a clear out over the winter holidays. we decided to get it for one week but it turned out that since the company was closed for 2 weeks we had it for 2 weeks even though we only paid for one. so i was wondering, would it be considered dishonest to do that again next year on purpose?January 4, 2022 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #2048085ujmParticipant
What’s a “skip”? Clear out what? Which “winter holidays”?January 4, 2022 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2048094
Ask your LOR
Do you have one?January 4, 2022 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2048100Reb EliezerParticipantJanuary 4, 2022 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2048109
sounds like it is an open secret that every regular customer would know. They understand in advance that they are giving it to you for 2 weeks.
The only question might be that you would otherwise have it for 2 weeks and pay them more, so you are depriving them of livelihood. It sounds like absent this opportunity, you would pay for the week and use for the week, right? Then, they have no loss and you an extra convenience. Of course, it is a slippery slope to convince yourself that you really need 1 week, but in this case, you actually did it already.January 4, 2022 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #2048202
“What’s a “skip”? Clear out what?”
It’s British for dumpsterJanuary 5, 2022 9:52 am at 9:52 am #2048324akupermaParticipant
If commercial custom is that renting over a holiday period gives you more days than a usual rental, why is there a problem, especially as the firm making the rental seems to have closed (though they really should specify the day they wanted the rented moveable returned).January 5, 2022 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #2048370
So if next year i find i really do need to have it for 2 weeks, can i take advantage of this opportunity to pay less? is it as if the company are agreeing to let me pay less because they know that they will be closed? or is it plain dishonest?January 5, 2022 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #2048421Red AdairParticipant
I don’t see this as any different than buying day-old bread from a bakery or the young guys who wait for sushi to be reduced to half-price before buying. There’s no deception, no dishonesty, no coercion, nor any other improper behavior on the renter’s part. The company wants to rent it out for that two-week period and you want to rent it. Sounds like a win/win to me.January 5, 2022 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #2048426
You seem to have 2 concerns:
1) taking away business from the company. Chofetz Chaim would tear up a post office stamp whenever he would send a letter with someone travelling to the same destination. So, this is definitely a valid concern but also a hiddur. Furthermore, in his case, this is an ongoing and self-initiated problem – if a lot of people will stop using mail, the losses will disrupt the service. In your case, it is a once-a-year thing and they made the rules.
2) appearing to be scheming. How about you just tell them your plans and ask their opinion? Only you had to ask an owner, not an employee who does not care. Maybe suggest a small extra fee to make it agreeable.
actually 3) doing business with non-Jews around their holidays. If nobody comes, and here is their regular Jewish customer who helps fill the season, will they praise whoever for that?January 5, 2022 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #2048427
Red > any different than buying day-old bread from a bakery
difference is that the store sells day-old vbread as “day old”. Here they advertise “one week rentals”, they do not suggest “two for one week”, they just cannot accept a return during their week off. At least, this is how I understood it.January 5, 2022 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #2048428
a MUCH more problematic case is a story about illiterate peasants coming to a Jewish mill. The miller will count the sacks by putting a penny for every sack. Then, the miller will go to the back to get the money to pay. The peasant will see the pennies and steal them …January 5, 2022 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #2048429
I still don’t understand why you are asking the CR instead of a rabbiJanuary 5, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2048463
Of course I will ask a rav what to do, i was just curious about people’s opinions on the subject.
AAQ you are definitely raising good points!!January 6, 2022 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2048637Abba_SParticipant
I don’t see a problem. He rented a container to fill with garbage for one week. At the end of the period they are suppose to pick it up and drop the garbage at the dump. The vendor didn’t pick it up until a week later, not the renter’s fault. The purpose of the rental was to get rid of garbage not to rent a garbage containerJanuary 6, 2022 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #2048896
shlucha, please let us know the answer and the references!January 6, 2022 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #2048895
coffee > why you are asking the CR instead of a rabbi
if you discuss first with hevrusas, then you can clarify your question. Furthermore, I once asked a Rav what is important in answering questions (it is his main occupation, after all). He answered – most important is to help the person clarify his question.
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