Pence may be worse than Trump

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  • #617985
    charliehall
    Participant

    Mike Pence, who is now the presumptive running mate for Donald Trump, wrote an essay a number of years ago in which he denied that smoking was deadly. To quote, “smoking doesn’t kill”. YWN doesn’t permit outside links but it was saved on a web archive site. The level of denial is chilling. This is even worse than Trump’s questioning the use of vaccines!

    Trump and Pence are menaces to society and must be defeated.

    #1159636
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Liberals are the enemy of all humankind, and are responsible for many more deaths than smoking. The level of denial in this thread is chilling.

    #1159637
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Also, here’s the relevant paragraph from the op-ed:

    Time for a quick reality check. Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn’t kill. In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer. This is not to say that smoking is good for you…. news flash: smoking is not good for you. If you are reading this article through the blue haze of cigarette smoke you should quit. The relevant question is, what is more harmful to the nation, second hand smoke or back handed big government disguised in do-gooder healthcare rhetoric.

    You clearly misrepresented what he said, in an effort to make a political point to nobody, because nobody here cares about this, because the alternative is the liberals who are going to destroy the world.

    So why did you lie?

    #1159638
    huju
    Participant

    Trump is obviously an idiot. With Pence, you have to dig a little deeper (as the opening poster did) to see that he is fact-challenged. But Pence’s hair is better and more honest. So it’s a close call.

    #1159639
    Joseph
    Participant

    No one, absolutely no one, is as bad as Crooked Hillary Rotten Clinton. How many people have already died because of her? How many more will die?

    #1159640
    cherrybim
    Participant

    Charlie, but your guys Obama and Bill are smokers, whereas, Donald and Mike are not. So who are the menaces?

    #1159641
    huju
    Participant

    If you count that thing on Donald Trump’s head as a “someone,” then there is indisputably someone worse than Hillary. Which is why I have to vote for her.

    By the way, Trump’s first choice for running mate was the thing on his head.

    #1159642
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Donald Trump has not stopped being a liberal.

    #1159643
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Now this comment makes a lot of sense

    To coffee addict: I don’t vote for anyone because of his/her religion. There are plenty of goyische candidates whose views are consistent with Torah, and plenty of Jews – including frum Jews – whose views are not consistent with Torah. But just to give you a tangible example, I considered President Obama’s views more Torahic than Mitt Romney’s.

    You can’t argue with a liberal because to them left is right (pun intended)

    #1159644
    charliehall
    Participant

    “You clearly misrepresented what he said”

    No, I didn’t, and you lie just like Trump when you claim that I did.

    Or do you not understand English?

    ” smoking doesn’t kill”

    Smoking kills hundreds of thousands every year just in the US.

    “9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer”

    This is an example of stupidity. Yes, 9 of 10 smokers don’t contract lung cancer. But about 8 of 10 cases of lung cancer are caused by smoking. It is like claiming that most Canadians play in the National Hockey League because most hockey players in the National Hockey League are Canadian. Furthermore, about 2/3 of the deaths from smoking aren’t from lung cancer at all.

    Shame on you for defending this junk science.

    #1159645
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    You lied. No you lied. No you lied.

    #1159646
    charliehall
    Participant

    “No one, absolutely no one, is as bad as Crooked Hillary Rotten Clinton. “

    Now we have the ultimate in immorality.

    Abu BakrG al-Baghdadi is not as bad as Hillary Clinton.

    Bashir Assad is not as bad as Hillary Clinton.

    Hassan Nasrallah is not as bad as Hillary Clinton.

    Khaled Mashaal is not as bad as Hillary Clinton.

    Kim Jong Un is not as bad as Hillary Clinton.

    I want to throw up. This is the typical alternate reality in which Trump and his supporters live.

    #1159647
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ” smoking doesn’t kill”

    Did you not see the context? That’s almost like saying avodah zarah is a mitzvah because it says ?????? ????? ?????.

    #1159648
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Liberals are the enemy of all humankind, and are responsible for many more deaths than smoking. “

    Smoking kills about 480,000 people a year in the US, and about six million worldwide.

    So liberals kill more than six million people around the world every year?

    You are worse than Trump or Pence.

    #1159649
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Charlie,

    You, yet again, have been caught in a “liar, Liar, Pants on Fire” lie.

    All your liberal twisting and obfuscating does not hide that.

    It is your typical MO, and typical of OO.

    #1159650
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Charlie,

    This is an example of stupidity. Yes, 9 of 10 smokers don’t contract lung cancer. But about 8 of 10 cases of lung cancer are caused by smoking

    And 10 out of 10 cases of car accidents are caused by cars

    #1159651
    dbrim
    Participant

    “Noone is as bad as Clinton”

    as in potential presidents, not as in Hitler YMS”H is better than Clinton.

    Talk about misconstruing someone’s words. The woman is a criminal and anti-semite. But why even bother – the liberal herd will do what it always does – moo.

    #1159652
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Coffee Addict

    You blew it with 10 out of 10 car accidents are caused by cars.

    10 out of 10 Car accidents involve cars. Cars and/or their drivers are not always the cause.

    I live in small town America. In 1992, I was driving my car and was hit by a 10 year old girl on a bicycle who rode out from behind a tree and smashed into my passenger door.

    It is common in the spring and fall, for cars to be hit by deer running out of the woods.

    Finally, on June 28 1983 I drove over the Mianus River Bridge on I-95 returning home from a Mets Game. 10 minutes later the bridge collapsed into the river taking 4 vehicles with them 3 people were killed and 3 injured.

    None of these car accidents were caused by cars

    #1159653
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “No one, absolutely no one, is as bad as Crooked Hillary Rotten Clinton. “

    Well quite probably the people who claim that OO is Orthodox and the leaders of that Farce of a movement are as dishonest.

    Both are much more evilly dishonest than even Donald Trump.

    #1159654
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “So liberals kill more than six million people around the world every year? ‘

    Absolutely. Without question they do.

    1.2 Million alone from AIDS.

    #1159655
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    CT,

    Now it is you who has blown it. No one would call any of the incidents you cited “Car Accidents”.

    You are misconstruing incidents where there was an “accident” and a car was somewhere in the story to be a “car accident”.

    #1159656
    Sam2
    Participant

    nisht: Most “MO” are conservatives. By a pretty wide margin.

    #1159657
    akuperma
    Participant

    Obama and Clinton had eight years and have made a gigantic mess.

    Pence is a normal conservative. If you hold that secular liberalism (which is closer to socialism than “classic” liberalism which emphasized free markets and personal liberty) is a threat, opposing Clinton is a “no brainer”.

    Johnson/Weld mighter be better, but if Pence turns Trump into a conservative that is good. So far Trump has been running “in character” from the character he did on his TV show, with a very center of the road platform (probably closer to the Democrats on most issues than to the traditional Republic conservative positions of the last 50 years).

    #1159658
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sam: I believe nisht meant “modus operandi” when he wrote MO.

    #1159659
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Sam,

    MO = Modus Operandi. Typical Modus Operandi of Charlie. And Typical of the OO.

    #1159660
    miamilawyer
    Participant

    So many absurd comments above, do not know where to start.

    1) I agree that Hillary is a liar but all politicians are liars, please do not suggest to me that Donald Trump has any relationship with the truth. This notion that Hillary lies more is fox news spin. They both are liars.

    2) From the Shabbos tables I sit at when I do, I am usually arguing the liberal position because I disagree with both sides and most MO at the Shabbos tables I am at are conservative.

    3) The idea that aids is the fault of liberals is pretty absurd. First of all, people will be gay whether the law allows gay marriage or not. Second, the torah prohibition is on the act. no republican perhaps outside the deep south thinks that should be illegal. the issue that was being debated before the supreme court ruled was marriage, and even that is now settled. The 1.2 million number is the people currently living with aids, and today in the US, may survive (more than just magic Johnson).

    4) politicans and torah ideals? huh? There are only 7 mitzvos benei noach and the only one that is arguably at issue (not really, see above) is the gay issue but politicians are irrelevant. Supreme court has ruled. Not to mention that most republicans are Christian and many poskim (if memory serves) feel that is avoda zara, so most republicans are probably not scoring to well either according to those poskim.

    #1159661
    yehudayona
    Participant

    Where’s Haifagirl when we need her? “In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die…” DOES not die? Did Trump insist that his running mate have even worse writing skills than he has?

    Nisht, could you explain the relationship between liberals and deaths from AIDS?

    Akuperma, do you really think anyone can turn Trump into anything? He’s the guy who says he takes advice from himself (whatever that means).

    #1159662

    I find politics to be painfully boring so if everyone could limit their posts on this thread to just three or four words I would greatly appreciate it!

    #1159663
    Joseph
    Participant

    Miami: It is as unsettled as Roe v. Wade, which SCOTUS also ruled on but remains very much a matter of political debate, including advocacy for reversal (either via a new SCOTUS ruling or Constitutional amendment), decades later. Same with sodomites “marriage”.

    #1159664
    Sam2
    Participant

    nisht: My bad. Thanks for clarification.

    #1159665
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Smoking is bad.

    #1159666
    Avi K
    Participant

    How is this an issue in the election? Pence is a staunch supporter of Israel whose social values are very similar to those of Judaism. Hillary is an opponent of Jewish rights to all of EY, a proponent of the Obamanation and an incompetent, grossly negligent crook.

    #1159667
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Nisht,

    Thank you for answering for me, I was at a chasuna so didn’t see it until now, but I was going to say the same thing

    And I’m surprised at ctlawyer, bc he would say gun violence is caused by guns

    #1159668
    Health
    Participant

    Miamilawyer -“The idea that aids is the fault of liberals is pretty absurd. 1.2 million number is the people currently living with aids, and today in the US, may survive (more than just magic Johnson).”

    Actually I agree with Nisht!

    IDK how old you are, but the liberal policies in the US and Europe has caused AIDs to become a worldwide epidemic.

    And btw there is no cure for AIDS, most people who get it will die from it! Just the Western world has put billions of dollars into research and AID’s patients will live almost a regular life span!

    #1159669
    MDG
    Participant

    Dr. Hall,

    I said it before and I will say it again. You are a very intelligent person, but when it comes politics, you seem to throw out your intelligence & reason and follow the party line, even if intellectually dishonest. You took Pence’s statement out of context. It’s clear that he meant to say that smoking does not kill as much as people think because of…. His stats clearly show that people die from smoking, even if a minority of smokers. His point about smoking is a nuanced point.

    #1159671
    miamilawyer
    Participant

    I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later but my post got edited. I am now writing from my iphone at airport which doesnt let me copy the quotes above. Removing what i believe drew the mods erase button….

    @health. I do not know what liberal policies you speak of. If you are referring to the position on gay marriage, No serious us politician advocates for a ban on the actual torah prohibition of the act. The debate is over marriage, but almost all us politicians agree the act should be legal.

    I am unsure why you believe banning them from getting married would stop spreading any disease. If anything, it is safer as it keeps two people together.

    #1159672
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    coffeeaddict……………

    No I would not say gun violence is caused by guns. Gun violence is/are violent act(s) committed by people using guns.

    Am I in favor of Americans owning guns…no. Do I believe the 2nd Amendment permits Americans to own guns, yes. BUT I also believe that the 2nd Amendment allows government regulation of gun ownership…the key words in the Amendment being ‘well regulated militia.’

    So even if an individual claims to be a militia of one, the militia can b regulated.

    #1159673
    Health
    Participant

    Miamilawyer -“@health. I do not know what liberal policies you speak of.”

    Right you don’t!

    “If you are referring to the position on gay marriage,”

    No, I wasn’t!

    It was liberal policies, at the beginning of the AIDs epidemic, that allowed AIDs to spread all over.

    #1159674
    akuperma
    Participant

    In looking at the original posting again,it occurred to me that a liberal Democrat would like Trump better than Pence. Trump is basically middle of the road Democrat (i.e. a big government somewhat populist who supported Obama and Bill Clinton), whereas Pence is a main stream Republican (social conservative, small government, against corporate welfare as well the taxes to pay for it, for a strong national defense). Indeed, except for former governors Johnson and Weld, Pence is the only Republican running for national office this year.

    #1159675
    Abba_S
    Participant

    I don’t understand why you consider Pence to be dangerous. Has he advocated cutting funding for cancer research? He is entitled to his opinion. Does the VP have any power? Only if something happens to the president. If Biden can be VP than anyone can.

    In any case people will vote for Trump or Clinton, for who they are not for who their VP is.

    #1159676
    charliehall
    Participant

    “It was liberal policies, at the beginning of the AIDs epidemic”

    Uh, the President for the first 7 1/2 years of the AIDS epidemic was Ronald Reagan.

    This shows how much right wing extremists like you have gone off the deep end. Ronald Reagan is now a liberal.

    #1159677
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    akuperma………..

    Liberal Democrats (I’m one) don’t like Trump better than Pence. They don’t like either one. It’s not a comparison on a ratings chart.

    I’ll do my best to see that Trump is not elected President. I don’t have to waste time on Pence, because if Trump loses, so does Pence.

    Living here in a CT, I’m not concerned that Trump will win our Electoral votes.

    BTW>>>Congratulations to the residents of Indiana…you have now shed yourself of Governor Pence effective the end of his current term.

    #1159678
    Sinanjew
    Member

    The Sinas Chinum here is almost palpable and is maddening.

    Is anyone here aware how close to the 3 weeks and Tisha B’Av we are?

    Please. Everyone, just take a step back and breath.

    #1159679
    Health
    Participant

    Charlie -“Uh, the President for the first 7 1/2 years of the AIDS epidemic was Ronald Reagan.

    This shows how much right wing extremists like you have gone off the deep end. Ronald Reagan is now a liberal.”

    The manipulation of the left – no knows no bounds!

    A simple Google search reveals that my comments were correct!

    Although, my comments were not based from doing a Google search.

    From Wikipedia:

    “AIDS epidemic: – One of the best known works on the history of HIV is 1987’s book And the Band Played On, by Randy Shilts. Shilts contends that Ronald Reagan’s administration dragged its feet in dealing with the crisis due to homophobia, while the gay community viewed early reports and public health measures with corresponding distrust, thus allowing the disease to spread and hundreds of thousands of people to needlessly die.”

    Charlie go back to sleep!

    #1159680

    Charlie, I’m a little confused. Surely you don’t believe that opposing vaccines is the worst of Trump’s beliefs, and that favoring small government over cigarette industry regulation is the worst of Pence’s beliefs?

    #1159681
    Joseph
    Participant

    WB jf02!

    #1159682

    Joseph, you beat me to it – Welcome back jewishfeminist!

    #1159683

    Thanks!

    #1159684
    charliehall
    Participant

    The leading proponent of The Sinas Chinum is Donald Trump.

    #1159685
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Surely you don’t believe that opposing vaccines is the worst of Trump’s beliefs, and that favoring small government over cigarette industry regulation is the worst of Pence’s beliefs?”

    Actually one can argue that they ARE the worst. Millions of people around the world die from cigarettes every year, and in the past century millions have dies from infectious diseases that are now vaccine-preventable.

    But both Trump and his surrogate Gingrich just yesterday made foreign policy statements that should terrify even people who don’t have a problem with mass deaths from smoking and infections: They basically announced that under a Trump administration, the US will no longer be obligated to defend its allies under all circumstances. They specifically mentioned Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia and were I a citizen of any of those countries I would be trying to get another passport as it is clear that Putin is in an expansionist move. A similar statement by Dean Acheson in 1950 directly triggered the Korean War. And think for a minute about what this means for Israel — if Trump is willing to all Putin to dominate other US allies, why wouldn’t he allow one of Putin’s allies like Assad wants to dominate — or even take over — Israel?

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