Pesach program solutions

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  • #1512863

    shegold96
    Participant

    What ideas or solutions can be done for this industry? ideas for next year?

    #1513049

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You might want to specify exactly what you think are the problems

    The simple fact that people are doing it?

    The what is seems that alot of dishonest people are running these programs?

    Other issues

    #1513041

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Is there a problem looking for a solution?

    #1513079

    Joseph
    Participant

    There’s a kashrus problem, as anyone working in those kitchens can likely testify.

    #1513086

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Do you know a specific program that had a kashrus issue or are you just generalizing?

    #1513602

    MDG
    Participant

    “There’s a kashrus problem, as anyone working in those kitchens can likely testify.”

    I worked in a kitchen for Pesach. No problems.

    #1513694

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The biggest problem is Jealousy by many of those who dont go who envy those who do go (I dont go and I am not jealous, but many are jealous and using excuses to show their jealousy)

    #1514024

    mentsch1
    Participant

    ZD
    Jealousy?
    During my pre-sefirah haircut I was listening in on a conversation.
    Two people talking excitedly about where they were headed.
    One was looking forward to sedarim on the Vegas strip .
    The other was headed to Egypt “to the exact spot where the yidden crossed the yarden “
    It’s not jealousy, it’s me being judgmental that nebach so many yidden haven’t got a hashkafic clue.

    #1514230

    lesschumras
    Participant

    mentsh1,you mean they don’t comply with your hashkafa.

    #1514290

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “It’s not jealousy, it’s me being judgmental that nebach so many yidden haven’t got a hashkafic clue.”

    It sure sounds like jealousy to me

    #1514257

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    What do I care if someone wants to spend Pescah on the Las Vegas Strip, Orlando , Santorini or some other exotic location.

    If you can afford to spend Pesach in Venice, Gezun De Heh, Id rather go to Venice when it isnt Pesach I can have alot more fun and spend more time doing stuff and its cheaper

    #1514511

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Considering that there is a mitzvah in the Torah to be Oleh regel three times a year I can only imagine the conversation after 120
    G-D: nu yankel, I gave you lots of money. So how come you didn’t come visit me more often?
    Yankel: G-D but how many times can we see the same sites?

    #1514519

    lesschumras
    Participant

    mentsch: your point being you’re the arbiter of where people spend yom tov? So, a child is failing on hashkafa if they travel to Florida from NY to spend Pesach at their parents home?

    #1514531

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Less
    “mentsh1,you mean they don’t comply with your hashkafa.”
    I am pretty sure that the 4/5ths of Klal Yisroel that didn’t leave mitzrayim said the same thing to Moshe Rabbeinu
    I’m pointing out the irony that pesach has become our most gashmiyusdik Yom Tov, when it was only made possible by those who shunned the gashmius of mitzrayim.
    As for your other comment; google straw man

    #1514588

    lesschumras
    Participant

    mentch1, you are free and entitled to define and spend Pesach as you wish, within Halacha, as does everybody else.

    #1514728

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Most of the Pesach programs are within 2-3 hours driving of NYC

    The reason they have become more popular is the dark side to Chumras, Everyone thinks how great Chumras are, but they dont realize the negative consequences they can have. By making people (read Women) clean every nook and cranny in the home and cook for 20-30 guests it becomes to make the holiday very unplesant for many especially for those who are unable to handle these things. Not every woman is able to clean every nook and crany in the house and cook for so many especially over an extended period of yom tov (1 Meal is hard enough, now try for 4-6 meals or more) and usually this work is placed on the Bubies who might be in their 60’s or 70’s or even higher. The Bubbies might love their grandchildren, but it doesnt mean they can cook for 20-30 of them along with children and spouses (and sometimes spouses of grandchildren)

    With enforced Gebroachs (Meaning beacause many avoid Gebraochs, the companies are forced to make Gebrachs free items instead of cheaper matza meal stuff and you are forced to buy it

    One can easily spean one to two thousand dollars making Pesach at home , people just say, whatever Ill go to hotel for a little more and let someone else do the work, that way I can really enjoy the holiday

    #1514991

    cherrybim
    Participant

    How can there be any kashrus problems or hashkafa issues when all these top rabbis are starring at these resorts all over the world?

    #1515065

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    ZD: Who are the machmirim on the cleaning process, men or the women? What I have found is that the women are more machmir then the men are. As to manufacturers producing non-gebrokts items, no one is forcing them to do it. I am not forced to buy anything. I eat gebrokt; however, I am makpid on shmura matza and most gebrokts items are made with 18 minute matza.

    #1515143

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How can there be any kashrus problems or hashkafa issues when all these top rabbis are starring at these resorts all over the world?

    How can someone be considered a top rabbi if they go to Pesach programs with serious kashrus issues?

    #1515144

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    most gebrokts items are made with 18 minute matza.

    I was under the impression that most commercial gerokts products aren’t even made with 18 minute matza. (18 minute matza refers to the machines being cleaned every 18 minutes.)

    #1515152

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    What happens is the commercial market for Passover food is very small and people dont even want them when its not Pesach, so the food companies have to make the products with the most appeal, since non-gebrachs wont eat Gebrachs, they make more non-gebrachs items just because the market is bigger so people who eat Gebrachs dont really have a choice.

    Dont be so sure its the women who are more Machmir on cleaning, Maybe its the people you know , but you have to have a bigger sample of all jews who keep kosher “l-Pesach ” not just your community

    #1515225

    mentsch1
    Participant

    ZD
    You are absolutely right, it is so much harder to make pesach these days compared to 100 years ago.
    Granted our bubby’s Had to literally make everything from scratch including plucking and kashering the chickens.
    But we have problems. Our prepackaged food comes with so many chumros. And our 4000+ square foot mansions don’t clean themselves!
    True we have live in maids (or if you worry about the kashrus of your kitchen , then just a woman who comes twice a week). But it’s oh so exhausting to tell her which rooms to clean.
    I’m getting so stressed out thinking about it I need to stop writing and call my shrink for more anti anxiety meds!

    #1515247

    lesschumras
    Participant

    das yachid, and what is your “impression” based on?
    My impression is that my wife makes matza brei, kneidlach and other gebrochts dishes from shmurah matzah.

    #1515507

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    mentch1- not everyone has the same trajectory of poverty to wealth. My great-grandparents had live in help. I don’t. The cleaning help I do have throughout the year (very part time) isn’t available for me in the pre-pesach season since she goes to people who offer her more money then. Making pesach is far from easy. It’s a mitzva so I try to do it with as much simcha as possible but please don’t make my efforts sound like a joke. If not for commercially available products I would probably collapse from exhaustion. You’re also forgetting one very major difference between women of today’s generation and in the past; my great-grandparents prior to WWII didn’t work out of the house. Most jewish women today work at least 30 hours out of the house a week.

    #1515512

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Its actually much easier to control Kashruth when you control the food supply than when you dont

    Since most of us do not have farms, Shecht or own animals we have to rely on others for food

    #1515854

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Gamanit
    I believe you completely missed the point of my sarcasm and the points I have been making. mainly I am arguing that despite accusations of “jealousy” there are genuine hashkafic questions on the idea that traveling to a new exotic local every pesach is perfectly fine and rational. Frankly I would go so far as labeling it nuvel brushus hatorah. If you have the money then go be m’kayim the mitzvah of oleh regel (at least in spirit since there is no bais hamikdash). Running to vegas/egypt etc. is not in the spirit of yetzias mitzrayim. We were running away from places of tumah, today people run to them.
    In addition, I find the argument of “I need to do it for my sanity/enjoyment” bc I cant handle the cleaning/cooking lame. I’m not saying it’s never appropriate. The one time we considered doing it was after a wedding we made close to yom tov. But we decided against it. But I can hear it. I just find the idea that people can’t handle the annual stress of the yom tov prep, so they need to run away from home, wussy.
    Those were my points.
    But
    If you want to start another discussion, sure. I think your point was prepackaged pesach foods really help the working woman. I agree whole heartedly.

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