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What is the halachic problem with picking and choosing every kula in the book?
On what basis must one pick one posek and follow his piskei din on ALL matters, for kula and for chumra? i.e. If you follow Rav Moshe, must you follow all his chumras too (i.e. no Shabbos clock for an air conditioner)? Why?
Why is it so prevalent that you find so many people picking and choosing kulas from a smorgasbord of rabbis, and rarely if ever will you find anyone doing that with chumras?
On what basis must one pick one posek and follow his piskei din on ALL matters, for kula and for chumra? i.e. If you follow Rav Moshe, must you follow all his chumras too (i.e. no Shabbos clock for an air conditioner)? Why?
There is no such basis. Why do you assume there is any such rule?
However, one must make sure their actions are acceptable according to whom they asked, and can not pick and choose to get a hybrid din. The classic example of this is davening both Mincha & Ma’ariv between Plag & Shekia.
Halachicly or Hashkaficly?
Halachicly, you are probably OK (sort of like “Kim Li”). Hashkaficly, we agree it is a “bad idea”.
no, no, no, when a ques. comes up , speak to your rav. you cannot pick and choose.
And if someone already asked a rov a shaila and doesn’t like the psak he got, what — halachicly (not hashkaficly) — would prevent him from re-asking the same shaila to another rov in order to get a more palatable psak? Or do you see no halachic objection to doing so?
I would think (but am not sure) that as long as he mentions the first P’sak, I don’t see it to be a halachic problem. If you “forget” to mention it then you are either not providing all the information, or you are misleading the second Rov and are guilty of Genavas Da’as.
What point are you tring to make here?
So Kula Shopping is the order of the day?
No comment, but I do have a terrific joke about this (if no one else posts it)
One who always go LeKula is called a Rasha (Rosh Hashana 14b). Why?
Because a Kula in one place may be based on a situation that makes a Humra in another. In other words, you can’t play both sides of the fence, or else you will contradict yourself. See the above citation and Rashi ad loc for a better understanding.
It seems to me that if the items are unrelated, then you may be able to be lenient in both, BUT you have to make sure they are unrelated in their reasoning’s. CYLOR.
bpt, nu?
MDG: How unrelated is unrelated? For example, consistently davening maariv ten minutes before shkia but working down to the wire on Friday. On the surface it looks like two completely unrelated matters.
bpt: nu?
Did anyone try out the new software program developed in Israel? I think it’s called Shailos & Teshuvos. You enter your shaila into it; then you enter the teshuva you are seeking. The program then gives you the name of a rabbi who rules the way you like, so you can act as you wish.
ItcheSrulik,
Good question. That’s why I ended off with CYLOR, aka call a Rav.
BTW there is more leeway with Arvit times.
No one knows this one? OK, here goes:
Yoiley (or Josh, depending on your area) spent his days and nights scouring the planet for each and every kula there was. Name a loophole, he knew it. He lived as close to being chazzer traif, mechalel shabbos, living life like a shagetz, as you can get without ever stepping over the line.
And so, his gluttonous life rolled along until one day, his oisgepashete soul ascended to heaven.
Once there, the bes din shel maaleh pulled his records and stared reviewing what he had done. For each charge, he was ready with a heter or yesh omrim (desenting opinions, opimion held by the minority, ect) to defend each and every deed. As his defense, he said, ” I know there are a majority of poskim that disagreed, but I had a heter or deieh (opinion) that ruled the other way, so I went with that opinion”
After an exhausting trial, the bes din went to deliberate. It took all of 2 minutes, and they came back with a verdict: You are going to Gehenom.
Whaat??? I had a heter for each and every move I made! How could you arrive at this conclusion?
Answered the rosh bes din, “Yeah, we know. And 99 of of said you should go to Gan Eden. But ONE deieh said to send you to Gehenom, so we went with that one.
See ya, Yoiley!
shilishi: the Gemara says that after one Rav assers, his contemporary may not permit. There are exceptions under specific circumstances, but that is the rule.
C’mon, bpt. That one is old. I was expecting new material. 🙂
“And 99 of of said you should go to Gan Eden. But ONE deieh said to send you to Gehenom”
In such cases of dispute it depends upon how that person judged others.
On erev Yom Kippur we seek peace with our fellow man, so that if 999 vote guilty and one not guilty the not guilty vote wins.
Like mdd said HERE a couple of days ago, you can be matir 3/4 of Shulchan Aruch like this. And as mdd correctly pointed out, by posting these kulas as if they are accepted psak you are confusing part of the olam here with the shvere minority shittas that we do not pasken like. And you may be causing people to be nichshol.
Who is “we”?
Rav Moshe is Mattir “Cholov HaCompanies”. “We” (as in Klal Yisroel in America) is Noheg like Rav Moshe.
The Bach (and possibly the Rema) is Mattir Chadash in Chul. “We” Pasken like the Bach.
When you tell me who the “we” is that does not pasken like “minority shittos” (your term), then “we” can discuss. “We” might also be Satmer Chassidim, and “we” Pasken that women must shave their heads. Are those who argue “minority shittos”? Perhaps Rav Yoel (the Satmer Rov) is the majority by definition!
Rav Shlomo Aviner, a major posek of the Chardali (charedi-leaning dati leumi) community, recently answered this very question, in one of his mini-teshuvos. He’s not known for leniencies himself, as far as I know. Here’s the quote from his website:
“Q: In theory, is it permissible for me to always search out a Rabbi who is lenient?
A: Yes. One who wants to follow Beit Shammai may do so, one who wants to follow Beit Hillel may do so. Eruvin 6b. But not leniencies which contradict one another.”
yytz: That’s strange. It’s against an explicit Gemara in Rosh Hashana (14b or 15b).
Hello99: Doesn’t the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch bring down that you may ask a second Rav so long as he’s greater than the first and as long as you tell him the P’sak you got first?
bpt: Correct me if I’m mistaken, but in dinei nefashos, wouldn’t any number of votes not guilty and 1 vote guilty result in a din of not guilty?
Sam2, if you’re wondering about Rav Aviner’s reading of that Gemara, I encourage you to email him through his website. His assistant usually responds with an answer from the Rav within a few hours.
Rav Moshe is Mattir “Cholov HaCompanies”. “We” (as in Klal Yisroel in America) is Noheg like Rav Moshe.
The Bach (and possibly the Rema) is Mattir Chadash in Chul. “We” Pasken like the Bach.
Who is “We”?
Most people that I know in America don’t eat “Cholov HaCompanies” and aren’t Noheg like R’ Moshe.
And the rise in Cholov Yisroel establishments points to a growing trend that way.
Although I don’t know about people eating Chodosh here, I do see Yoshon signs and I understand that it is common knowledge in certain places such as in Lakewood, when Shoprite’s flour becomes Yoshon.
I think what you meant to say is that there is a significant population that eats Cholov Stam and Chodosh in accordance with Halachic opinions, but there is also a significant population who does not in accordance with those who say not to.
Derech HaMelech: Exactly the point.
Do not try to create “we”. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth. There is no “we”.
Thanks for getting it.
Yytz: I know. I have sent many things to him that way.
DH: Many who don’t have the luxury of living in New York hold by R’ Moshe.
Re: cherry-picking poskim, a well-known Gemara (Avoda Zara 7a) states that once one halachic authority is questioned and rules regarding the halachic status of an item, no other authority should be questioned to procure a differing ruling:
[1]
[2] With the exception of where a mistake has been made by the Rav, in which case the initial ruling had no potency. See the Ritva there and the Rema and Shach (cited below), for a discussion of which mistakes this is true for.)
One final caveat. The whole discussion here about the essence and power of psak only holds true to a ruling made on a specific item: e.g. the Rav is consulted about the kashrus of the chicken; or the beracha on a food, however, regarding a general halachic enquiry: for example, what is the halacha if I forget ???? ???? on Rosh Chodesh, should I follow a certain practice or minhag, the above discussion is not relevant. In such a situation there is no physical item for a ???? of psak to become active (Chut Shani, Y.D. 188). It is to be explained how it is in such questions that a ruling can obligate the ???? to follow the words of the Rabbi.
(above from A Prager)
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