May 3, 2015 1:50 am at 1:50 am #615618
Does anyone know the source for using a pigeon to help cure hepatitis? Anyone who did it successfully? Thanks.May 3, 2015 3:01 am at 3:01 am #1075285
YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
I have seen it work, and I have spoken to others who have as well.May 3, 2015 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1075286
A close relative of mine did this procedure for his father and it worked.May 3, 2015 3:31 am at 3:31 am #1075287
It’s in the DSM VIMay 3, 2015 3:53 am at 3:53 am #1075288
Do Canadian coins work?May 3, 2015 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1075289
There is no DSM VI, and the DSM is a manual for diagnosing mental illnesses, not physical ones.May 3, 2015 4:08 am at 4:08 am #1075290
That was his point.May 3, 2015 4:15 am at 4:15 am #1075291
There is no DSM VI, and the DSM is a manual for diagnosing mental illnesses, not physical ones.
The DSM is a manual for advancing political agendas, so it would be an apt place to put this.May 3, 2015 4:30 am at 4:30 am #1075293
How is the pigeon method political? It either works or is quackery, but why political?May 3, 2015 4:33 am at 4:33 am #1075294
How is the pigeon method political? It either works or is quackery, but why political?
Ok, so maybe it’s not in the DSMMay 3, 2015 5:34 am at 5:34 am #1075295
I think Taamim Uminhagim mentions itMay 3, 2015 5:52 am at 5:52 am #1075296
Taamei Minhagim brings it down (in the back of the Sefer with a bunch of other Refuos). Some claim it works. Others claim to have shown how the trick is accomplished and how it doesn’t really heal anyone. It is important to note that other cultures use the same “treatment” for other diseases, so that lends credence to the fakery Tzad.May 3, 2015 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1075297
How is the trick accomplished?May 3, 2015 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1075298
I know someone who did it and it worked.May 3, 2015 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1075299
yayin yashan bkli chadash -Vintage 5773 -“Does anyone know the source for using a pigeon to help cure hepatitis? “
I’m Not going to discuss whether it works or not. Most cases in the Frum community are Hepatitis A. There is a vaccine for Hep A & it was around a good few years. Everybody should have it, especially those who live and visit EY!May 3, 2015 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1075300
Vaccines?!?!?May 3, 2015 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #1075301
Since when does Ernst and Young have a hepatitis problem?May 3, 2015 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1075302
I know a doctor who does this.May 3, 2015 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #1075303
Great. Now this is a vaccine thread.May 3, 2015 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1075304
DY -“Since when does Ernst and Young have a hepatitis problem?”
Who’s Ernst & Young?May 3, 2015 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1075305
That’s not what you meant?May 3, 2015 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1075307
Your’s would be a better question on the “Going to EY for a date” thread.May 3, 2015 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1075308
That’s what I was referring to.May 3, 2015 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #1075309
DY – From previous news on YWN: “The Ministry of Health on Sunday, 3 Sivan 5774 announced a warning regarding the Eyal Hotel located on Shammai Street in Yerushalayim. The warning states a cook employed by the hotel has been diagnosed with Hepatitis A.”
This wasn’t the only post about Hepatitis & Israel!May 3, 2015 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #1075310
Get vaccinated!!!May 4, 2015 2:44 am at 2:44 am #1075311
A Reuters article from 2004:
Egyptians unable to afford drugs that cost
eight times the average annual wage are resorting to a bogus ritual with
live pigeons to try to cure a serious liver disease, doctors said on
The alternative treatment for hepatitis C emerged about a year ago and
has become increasingly popular, they said. The ritual is not
traditional and its origins are a mystery.
“The treatment involves removing the feathers from the backside of a
pigeon and holding it on the patient’s navel until the bird dies,” said
Mona Abu-Zekry, a specialist in infectious diseases.
Practitioners say the birds die after sucking the virus into their own
bodies. Abu-Zekry said they secretly choke the birds to death while
holding them against their patients.
“It’s a fallacy. The people doing this are trying to make money from
people who don’t know any better,” she said.
Egypt suffers one of the world’s highest hepatitis C infection rates,
the doctors said. The virus, which is spread by contact with infected
blood, affects about 14 percent of the population and can cause liver
failure and cancer.
Soheir Sheir, a former head of internal medicine at Ain Shams University
in Cairo, said the cost of a 24-week course to treat hepatitis C was
45,000 Egyptian pounds ($7,323).
The United Nations Development Program’s figure for Egyptians’ average
annual income was 5,538 pounds in 2001.May 4, 2015 2:49 am at 2:49 am #1075312
The earliest Jewish source for the pigeon cure is in the Divrei Yitzchak in 1896 where he mentions that people do it.
The oldest actual source is the classic occult/magic textbook by Frances Barrett called The Magus, or Celestial Intelligencer, published in 1801. He describes the same “cure” using a duck.
(That totally makes this Darchei Emori, by the way. You’re welcome, DY.)May 4, 2015 2:54 am at 2:54 am #1075313
Just because those are the oldest sources you or some frei professor found, does not mean it is actually the oldest sources.May 4, 2015 3:10 am at 3:10 am #1075314
There are (at least) three different diseases called hepatitis. Which one is this supposed to cure?May 4, 2015 3:35 am at 3:35 am #1075315
YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Why are we arguing over whether or not it is legit if there are people here saying they have seen it? Obviously it works.May 4, 2015 4:01 am at 4:01 am #1075316
It might be an illusion or a coincidence.May 4, 2015 4:34 am at 4:34 am #1075317
The divrei yitzchak supposedly brings a source from the gemara. I got the sefer, but was unable to find the piece. For all those who said that you are suffering from mental disease for thinking about it, our that is darkei emori, you’re going to have to answer for calling the taamei minhagim those things. Maybe think before sticking your head between the lions. (There is an article by Fred Rosner in the NYS Journal of Medicine 1992:5 titled “Pigeons as a remedy (segulah) for Hepatitis”. He actually cited a lot of relevant information.)May 4, 2015 5:07 am at 5:07 am #1075318
I saw it done by Rav Nosson Tzvi Cohen in Mir Yerushalayim in 1973. The bil rubin count of the patient was 29 when we started and 7 when we finished about 17 pigeons later. Instead of hospitalization, the patient was back n Bais Medrash in less than a week.
Rabbi Twersky of Pittsburgh did lab tests to discover and found that it not scientific, but a spiritual siyata dishmaya.May 4, 2015 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1075319
Mod 29: Really? People have seen it? People have taken blood tests before, reviewed the samples, watched the pigeon thing, then taken another blood test and seen the lack of disease?
Or maybe people have seen someone sick looking sick, seen a charlatan kill a pigeon on his stomach, and then seen the guy look better. The placebo effect is a powerful thing.
YYBC: Yeah, and in that article Dr. Rosner proves that it is a complete fake. I didn’t quote him because there are reasons not to cite him, but he certainly doesn’t agree with the side that it works. And if the source is a Gemara all the more reason not to do it. I believe R’ Avraham Ben HaRambam’s Lashon on someone who follows the Gemara’s refuos is “Damav B’Rosho”.May 4, 2015 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1075320
RABBAIM: Who’s Rav Nosson Tzvi “Cohen”? Are you remembering the bilirubin numbers as well as you’re remembering the practitioner’s name?May 4, 2015 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1075321
There is a difference between the segulos in the gemara and the refuos.May 5, 2015 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1075322
pretty sure i heard R dovid orlofsky say he was cured with pigeons onceMay 5, 2015 2:29 am at 2:29 am #1075323
yayin yashan bkli chadash -“Does anyone know the source for using a pigeon to help cure hepatitis?”
Who cares? What gets me – is why not go to a doctor? Even if already exposed.
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