August 31, 2021 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2004616
They are such beautiful and poignant tefilos of bekasha why are they mumbled through by almost all the shul’s I daven/davened in even shul’s with famous and chosshove leaders ? (Not to talk about the first chelek of slichos before shma koleinu that’s a given that it will be machined gun through)August 31, 2021 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #2004713BenephraimParticipant
Chazan ZK did a good job on הלבן חטאינו. Roitman did אשמנו מכל עם. To be מלמד זכות, our מנהג is to be מרבה only on ערב ראש השנה, so the דולג is not מפסיד.August 31, 2021 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #2004728
Several seforim mention that the pituyim that grace selichos each day, are secondary to the long paragraph of introductory psukim, and to the reciting of the 13 midos harachamim. In reality all of selichos is an absolute treasure, if we had any inkling of what we are saying. Same goes for the most used book in every shul, the siddur. Our routine and robotic recitation of the regular tefilos is a “swing and a miss” (baseball lingo). We have precious opportunities to speak directly to Hashem. Clearly, diverting that time and energy to social chatter is a horrible waste. But babbling the words without emotional involvement, which would be facilitated much by better understanding of what we say, is a similar waste.
Shulchan Aruch obligates us to review tefilos prior to Rosh Chodesh – inasmuch as printing presses were not common then, and there were limited handwritten copies of the siddur. The Mishna Berurah comments that since we have siddurim and machzorim, this halacha pertains to piyutim. I ask, which yeshivos reserve time to review tefilos, whether year round or before Yomim Tovim? Do we review the piyutim of Selichos or of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur? How about the Hoshanos recited during Sukkos? As per the MB, this is a halacha. I believe we would do ourselves a huge favor by gaining more understanding of what we utter in tefiloh so that we do not squander the precious opportunity to speak directly to HKB”H (upon his express invitation).August 31, 2021 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #2004750lowerourtuition11210Participant
choose a different minyan. people do have to go to work.August 31, 2021 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #2004806Reb EliezerParticipant
We say like the poor who knock on Hashem’s door recognizing that we lack zechusim worthy to be heard. It says in SA O’CH 98 that we should not daven with the mindset that we are worthy of being granted our wishes. We should daven for a matnas chinom, a free grant, as ki lo chofetz bemos hames ki im beshuvo miderochov vechaya, Hashem does not want to punish the sinner but do teshuva to live. Anu melei avon, we are full of sin, veato malei rachamamim, and You are full of mercy.September 1, 2021 10:45 am at 10:45 am #2004968
That is one of the more foolish things to comment. No one minimizes the need to go to work. I assume you work, and I know I do. That’s our parnosoh, and this is the chief means by which HKB”H provides for us. But your version of “Get Real” is sadly mistaken. Much more important is our desperate need to daven, and all our tefilos, including selichos are critical to our very existence. If you are under such severe pressure to get to work on time, begin selichos earlier. There are probably minyonim that you could attend that make this possible. The alternative of ramming through selichos, or any part of davening is inconsistent with our mission as Yidden. We need to set the proper priorities. Chewing up or trimming tefilos in a rushed frenzy to get to work is not an option.September 1, 2021 11:33 am at 11:33 am #2005010ubiquitinParticipant
“ll our tefilos, including selichos are critical to our very existence.”
Do yo uhave a source for this statement? I would love to see a source that saying every selicha is critical to our very existence.
It seems to be against an explicit Mechaber in the very first siman in Shulchan Aruch “Tov me’at tachanunum im kavana me’harbos be’lo kavana”September 1, 2021 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #2005047lowerourtuition11210Participant
TLIK: I am not the original poster. i daven at a minyan that adjusts its starting time to say slichos and daven like a mentsch. I’ve been hearing this issue for many years. People who want to say slichos slowly have the right to choose a slower minyan. i learn after davening so speed is not important to me.September 1, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #2005137
I am not saying to say it slowly with kavana chas vshalom. I’m highlighting the fact that to say it just a “normal speed” is almost impossible. Yea Yea i know whats normal for one is not normal for another… I mean normal your standard 10 minute pesukei dzimra for example. I am usually whipped just to keep up and I need to say it at a level of speed as if one came late to davening and trying to make some form of tefilla btzibur without skipping. BTW I’m referring to the 8 am minyan usually a mix of retirees and ppl who go into work later meaning not in the “gunner” corporate employee minyanim of 6 and 7 am.September 1, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #2005140
By the way I would have no problem with that adaraba I think it should be widely implemented. I’ve heard of a big choshove rav in Flatbush that was pushing for this to say 1 or 2 selichos slowly. There is absolutely no point in ramming through all of it. But I wouldn’t be comfortable just to do it as a yachid without it being sanctioned by my rav.September 2, 2021 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #2005475
I am not suggesting that one must say every piyut. You are correct, a little with kavanah is better than a lot without. I am referring to either babbling through it to get done fatser. I am also addressing those who skip parts just to rush, perhaps to get to work earlier, etc. Starting earlier. A talmid chochom who I share the minyan with, begins selichos almost 10 minutes early so that he can keep up.
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