May 17, 2012 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #603461
Is there an issur against it? I don’t mean gambling. I’m just referring to games like solitaire, war, rummy, etc. No money involved, just fun.May 17, 2012 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #875897Doodle-Man™Member
It is Assur if youre not playing with a full deck.(That happened to me once.When i realized i decided to play with my marbles instead but i found i had lost them.)May 17, 2012 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #875898
gefen i have no 9s go fish.May 18, 2012 12:03 am at 12:03 am #875899Shticky GuyParticipant
Goq and moski – lol. Well, there are always two jokers in every pack…May 18, 2012 12:49 am at 12:49 am #875900
Didn’t realize I was starting such a fun thread! But you guys sure made me laugh. So…um… i guess you do play cards? So either it’s mutar or we’re all doing something assur! Chas V’Shalom.
The reason I asked is that I work in a school and one of the kindergarten children brought in a deck of cards and two teachers were very surprised that the family would have such a thing. When we asked another teacher about it, she didn’t even know what a deck of cards is! So I don’t know if it’s just this particular group of chassidus that doesn’t allow it, or is it written somewhere that we shouldn’t have them.
We tried to figure out if it’s maybe because there might be a cross on the crown of the king or what? Someone else said they thought that the Arizal said there is tumah in the cards.
So now this thread has two purposes. One – to see if anyone has the answer to my questions. Two – LET’S PLAY CARDS!
Goq- ok do you have any queens?May 18, 2012 12:54 am at 12:54 am #875901ED IT ORParticipant
what a bluff, ill callMay 18, 2012 12:54 am at 12:54 am #875902
Gefen: There is no inherent Issur. R’ Moshe has T’shuvos about playing cards on Shabbos. But there is no inherent Issue so long as it’s not for gambling. And I highly doubt the Arizal said anything about it. The modern deck of cards wouldn’t exist for almost 3 centuries after that. It could be he was referring to an old form of Tarot cards, which would make more sense.
See, however, the Be’ur Halachah in Hilchos Channukah where he says playing with cards is quite a bad thing to do. However, it’s clear that he’s talking about playing with some form of gambling.May 18, 2012 12:59 am at 12:59 am #875903
yes sigh, 2 queens here u goMay 18, 2012 1:06 am at 1:06 am #875904
Sam2 – good point – it makes sense that tarot cards would be considered tumah.
Goq – thanks for the queens. your turn.May 18, 2012 1:19 am at 1:19 am #875905csilver1516Member
I generally lurk to see what’s going on, and thought I should comment on this.
I don’t know of any issur per se, however, you should be aware that there are a number of images on the standard playing cards that are directly linked to Avoda Zara. One example is the “club” that is an old symbol of Avoda Zara symbolizing the “trinity” (3 are really 1 kind of idea). The trinity idea predates cristianity – they took it from the pagans. That is just one example.May 18, 2012 1:20 am at 1:20 am #875906☕️coffee addictParticipant
WAR!May 18, 2012 1:29 am at 1:29 am #875907ED IT ORParticipant
thegoq,I got u there I only had an ace high!
right you dealMay 18, 2012 1:31 am at 1:31 am #875908msseekerMember
R’ Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld told a boy who held cards in his hands to go to the mikvah.May 18, 2012 1:32 am at 1:32 am #875909
do you have any 3s gefen?May 18, 2012 2:01 am at 2:01 am #875910
GOQ; yes – 3 kids bli ayin hara – but i’m not giving them away (only when they get married, but even then, they will still be mine.)
I WIN!!!!! GAME OVER!!! LET’S START ANOTHER.
MSSEEKER; wow, that’s interesting!May 18, 2012 2:15 am at 2:15 am #875911
Not only do I play cards, I also play games that use cards (standard playing cards as well as custom cards for that particular game).
I guess that makes me a rasha multiple times over.
The WolfMay 18, 2012 2:32 am at 2:32 am #875912YW Moderator-42Moderator
Go troll for fish.May 18, 2012 2:34 am at 2:34 am #875913OneOfManyParticipant
Anyone for Five Card Unconventional Mao? 😀May 18, 2012 2:53 am at 2:53 am #875914
very funny gefen!, ok now its my turn to pick a game backgammon.May 18, 2012 2:54 am at 2:54 am #875915ItcheSrulikMember
Sam2: Tarot cards are assur d’oraisa on at least two counts that I can think of off the top of my head. In Arizal’s day there were playing cards though they were very similar to the tarot deck and would be assur as having idolatrous icons. See the wiki page for more information. I don’t think it complies with the link policy here.May 18, 2012 3:11 am at 3:11 am #875916
I’m reminded of the time (and yes, I know that I’m dating myself here) when I used to play Strat-O-Matic Baseball in yeshiva during lunch/recess. One time a bully threatened to tell the Rosh Yeshiva that we had baseball cards which, ostensibly, were forbidden in the school. I was about to object that they aren’t baseball cards, but then I stopped myself. I figured “what does the Rosh Yeshiva know about baseball cards? He’ll see cards, they’re about baseball, ergo, they’re baseball cards.”
The WolfMay 18, 2012 3:17 am at 3:17 am #875917
Itche: I once met a guy that reads Tarot cards for Frum people as a joke. I was unsure if it was Assur or if he was Mekayim a Mitzvah because it was Leitzanus of Avodah Zarah.May 18, 2012 3:19 am at 3:19 am #875918
Wolf was this rebellion of yours the first step in your journey towards being a sinner?May 18, 2012 3:33 am at 3:33 am #8759192good2btrueParticipant
Actually a guy I worked for told me that if you play cards, EVEN ON THE COMPUTER you are pusel l’aydis in Beis Din. Since I am anyway pusel l’aydis count me in to your game. Seriously I forgot why, he did show it to me I’ll have to ask my husband.May 18, 2012 3:59 am at 3:59 am #875920
Wolf was this rebellion of yours the first step in your journey towards being a sinner?
No. I’ve been the worst human being in the history of the planet since the day I was born. Since then I have not redeemed myself in any manner at all.
The WolfMay 18, 2012 4:23 am at 4:23 am #875921
OneOfMany: when my son went to Israel 2 summers ago, my cousin taught him the game of mao. He then came home and taught it to us. At first it drove us crazy – I mean how do you play a game without knowing the rules? After a while, we were kind of addicted (at least my son and I were. Not so sure about my girls and my husband). It’s a weird but fun game.
Wolf: “No. I’ve been the worst human being in the history of the planet since the day I was born. Since then I have not redeemed myself in any manner at all.” Yeah, right! You’re so funny. I love the way you write! You are one of my favorite posters. You have a lot of common sense and are never mean to anyone.
Goq: backgammon? hmmm. never knew it was a card game. how do you play? 😉May 18, 2012 4:44 am at 4:44 am #875922
Wolf if you are a born sinner than sinning isnt your fault and you wont go to gehenom no?May 18, 2012 5:40 am at 5:40 am #875923Shticky GuyParticipant
Gefen: you played a game from Israel and expected it to have rules???May 18, 2012 5:40 am at 5:40 am #875924
2good2btrue: That’s just not true. Look at the Edus things in the Shulchan Aruch. It’s not true.May 18, 2012 10:28 am at 10:28 am #875925NechomahParticipant
Gefen, Wolf is only mean to one person – himself. I wish he’d stop, since, as you point out, he has very common sense things to say, even when I disagree with him. I do wish he’d not play devil’s advocate soo much, but it does make a person think an issue to the depths when he does.
As far as cards go, my boys took a deck of cards to play with at cheder one day (in EY) and they were told to take it home, that it was goyishe zachin. I’m not sure how but I think unless there’s a real issur then we can’t make everything forbidden for kids to play, especially where I live and there are so few permissible things for them to do. Really,what’s wrong with playing go fish? You and Goq were really having fun.May 23, 2012 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #875926ItcheSrulikMember
Sam2: Someone offered me a tarot reading yesterday and I thought of your line. Didn’t take it though.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.