July 27, 2011 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #598255DanielMember
I live on brooklyn for 22 years.after much hardship we bought a house, little did we know what was in store for us next door. The house next door is a two family house with the landlord not living in the house, the place is hefker and is rented to who ever pays most money due to the great location. she doesnt care to put a family of five in a two bedroom apt . SO here is the newest dillema. She rented out the garage and huge backyard to a playgroup of twenty kids. That means my wife , who is not well has to get up befor ethen every morning since it is impossible to sleep with all the dropping off commotion. even with an air conditioner you hear the noise. this playgroup teacher brings the kids out to play twice a day so there is no resting hten either. I have dealt with it until now but just can t take it any longer. When i saw the homeowner recently , i told her i cant tolerate another shtick every day and to have other neighbors in consideration before renting. She totally ignored me. I spoke to people who have been living on the block much longer than me and they say im in a bad position.,She would never go to beis din and will ruin my clean name. WHAT DO I DO,??????? IS IT MESIRA if i report to 311 that the garage is being use for commercial purposes? There is a ruckus every day until three in the afternoon. PLEASE GIVE ME LOGICAL ADVICE>July 27, 2011 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #790907CheinMember
Yes, it’s mesira. Take her to Beis Din. IF she refuses to come, THEN the Beis Din can authorize further action IF the Dayanim determine it is halachicly permissible. Otherwise mesira.July 27, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #790908a maminParticipant
I definitely feel for you and your wife. BUT I don’t think Mesira is an option. Have you tried speaking to your Rav about it? What about theirs? Sometimes it’s hard to live with neighbors who don’t show consideration for their neighbors, but I don’t think it’s legal to make noise at those times.Have you tried dealing with the playgroup and told them your position?July 27, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #790909apushatayidParticipant
The logical advice is to ask a Rav if you are permitted to report this person. If it is halachicly permitted to call 311, let the homeowner know you will do so. You might also want to let the renter know you are doing the same. The landlord will be responsible for the use of the building for commercial purposes it wasnt zoned for, but the one running the playgroup is probably not licensed either and would likely get into trouble. Certainly the apartment is not suited for a daycare center and the one running it would be in trouble.
If you have nothing to worry about, all the screaming of the neighbor wont “smear” your good name. Especially if the neighbors agree with you and are willing to back you up. If she calls you a moser, so what, if you have a psak from your Rav that it is not mesira, who cares what the neighbor says.July 27, 2011 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #790910DanielMember
You see the problem is that she will ruin my clean name.She comes form a rebbishe family while, who am i ? a newcomer and a baal teshuva with kids to marry off. She has girls and boys mix in the basement and when i told her that they making noise at night she said its the girls brothers. Oh, didnnt know she has seven brtohers who come all the time. I have really tried to just deal with it, i just cant. Is any one else in brooklyn stuck with such difficult neighbors??????????? Am i the only one?July 27, 2011 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #790911cookies123Member
Did you ever try approaching the playgroup coordinator, as you’ve mentioned – talking to the home owner didn’t help a bit because for them its the money and nothing else matters, so perhaps if you discuss it with the tenant if they are considerate and erlich people they might be willing to work something out. Hatzlacha!July 27, 2011 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #790912zahavasdadParticipant
I had a frum neighbor who decided to move and rent out his house.
Since he moved he has rented to people who Smoke (And I dont Mean tobacco Ciggarettes) and it smells up the entire block. When then do some plain out tobacco cigarrtes they throw the butts on my property. Ive found beer cans , Cigarettes on my property from his tenats. Luckily I havent found any of the other “cigarettes” on my property.
He now lives about 2 blocks away and i have complained to him and they tell me “I was a terrible neighbor” and dont do anything.July 27, 2011 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #790913YW Moderator-20Moderator
Guaranteed to work- threaten her that if the noise doesn’t stop, you will report her to 311. I think she’ll freak out.July 27, 2011 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #790914apushatayidParticipant
Dont worry about your clean name. She wont ruin it. She is probably hoping her yichus will keep you in check and make you afraid to “cause trouble” for her. Dont let her.July 27, 2011 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #790915bptParticipant
Don’t worry about her ruining your rep. She (not the playgroup morah, not the slumlord) will not be a source for shidduchim anyways.
Call the health dept and it will shut down. Keep in mind, she is invading YOUR HOME, and impacting YOUR WELL BEING.
You owe them nothing.July 27, 2011 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #790916bombmaniacParticipant
im immature and i live with my grandmother…July 27, 2011 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #790917agittayidParticipant
If the conditions are unsuitable for children, you may actually be preventing a child from being harmed, if you report it.July 27, 2011 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #790918yossi z.Member
I would personally suggest that you go to a beis din and have them call in the offender (in this case it would be the landlord as they are responsible for who they rent to) without telling them you are going. IF they refuse to come ask the beis din if you can get a WRITTEN psak (protektzia) that you can report them and then tell the offender that you are going to call 311. Don’t actually call and see what happens (in other words, use it like a warning). IF there is no improvement even from that, then, without telling them, actually call 311.
😀 Zuberman! 😀July 27, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #790919cherrybimParticipant
This has nothing to do with mesira; it has to do with an unlicensed and probably uninsured child care establishment housed in a firetrap. It is a matter of pekuach nefesh for these children.
Having said that; I moved into my house many years ago and was just about the only Yid on the street. Because of its location and convenience, every chaleria in the neighborhood used my street, and in particular in front of my house, as a play ground from early morning into the night. Screaming, cursing, loud radio…all day long. It was unbearable.
After a few years, the street started to turn frum until it was all frum.
Now, when yiddishe kinder run and play and make noise, it’s all music to my ears. I love going to sleep to it on a Shabbos afternoon. Think about it.July 27, 2011 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #790920nitpickerParticipant
you ask “is this mesira?”.
is that how one gets a psak halacha these days,
post a question to an open forum for various peoples opinions?July 28, 2011 12:29 am at 12:29 am #790921amichaiParticipant
I don’t have an answer for you , but I feel for your hard situation. could it be the playgroup is just for the summer?July 28, 2011 2:39 am at 2:39 am #790922a maminParticipant
maybe you can get a third party to get involved and try to help you out?July 28, 2011 3:20 am at 3:20 am #790923
Tell the landlord nicely that what he/she is doing is both against the Torah and Halacha and ask him/her where they would feel settling this matter.
Our friends recently fixed over their basement as a rental, their neighbors who are big Rebbes build a fence to block the entrance so that the tenants cannot bring in furniture. His calls are not being returned.
As a suggestion, perhaps try calling 1 845 HALACHA where there are qualified dayanim from a top Beis Din on call day and night except for Shabbos and Yomim Tovim.July 28, 2011 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #790924dunnoMember
My parents (landlords) had a bad Jewish tenant once. Although they were tempted to evict him right away and immediately take him to court, they went to Beis Din who granted them the power to do whatever necessary…September 28, 2017 7:05 am at 7:05 am #1372573LightbriteParticipant
Wow! I’d never heard of 311 until this post. Thank you!
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