November 17, 2021 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2029818DBSParticipant
It is beyond me as to why some people on the coffee room feel so strongly connected to a certain political party. Do people think the GOP (I only use that example because it’s significantly more prevalent here but the same applies to dems) is truly interested in the interests of Jews? If the views happen to coincide then sure, vote for the GOP but realize that at the end of the day you are not ‘Republicans’ or ‘conservatives,’ you are Yidden.November 17, 2021 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #2029838Yabia OmerParticipant
I’ve been saying this for years.November 17, 2021 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2029856asdfghjkl111Participant
I agree in general. I never think it’s wise to go all in on Trump or any of the republicans. At the end of the day, they’re not yidden and they’ll do many things we don’t agree with.
That being said, with the current state of the democratic party, along with how crazy the world is/they’ve been the last 2 years, strong republican support is very important at this point in time. That can always change if moderate democrats become a thing again one day, but they are a dead breed right now.November 17, 2021 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2029897
American system works through compromise and has currently two parties, rather than 100 as Israel and Italy have, within each multiple compromises are made to come up with a coherent position. Nobody is 100% happy. Not too many people killed, though, comparing with other countries, for which we all should be 100% happy.November 17, 2021 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #2029996Shimon NodelParticipant
I believe you have to be twisted or ignorant to vote for democrats. I always vote republican 100% of the time, yet I don’t identify as republican in the slightest. I am confused by all the frum olam who don’t know how to walk the middle. Instead, so many decide to go full maga. It’s so nauseating.
You are not beholden to one system of beliefs. There are numerous things I strongly differ from republican consensus. Overall, I think Republicans are abhorrent and mentally disturbed. The main difference between them and democrats is their persistence and self interest. Democrat politicians believe only in their individual selves and have no regard for their fellow countrymen.November 17, 2021 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2030058ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤParticipant
Im a righty because… i write with my right handNovember 17, 2021 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #2030066DBSParticipant
But that doesn’t mean I would strongly identify with the party I voted fore, it just means that I choose the lesser of two evils.November 17, 2021 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #2030078AviraDeArahParticipant
Dbs, thank you for this most relevant and insightful post – it bothers me a lot when people get attached to goyim, quote their slogans, identify as one כת or another and get involved in fights that aren’t our concern. The Torah tells us to be loyal citizens, but that is not dependant on the party in power.
I’m curious, perhaps one of our pre millennial posters can tell us if yeshivos ever had students say the pledge of allegiance? I would feel positively about it, but of course I’d never suggest a change to chinuch without the advice of gedolei yisroelNovember 17, 2021 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #2030085ujmParticipant
The Yeshivish and Chasidish Yeshivos never recited the pledge of allegiance.November 18, 2021 7:14 am at 7:14 am #2030198
not sure about pledging, but reciting brochos in shul would be appropriate. MO do it for Israel and IDF, I know some shuls do it for US President and some for US Army, but I don’t think it is wide-spread. All old sidurim have that. I have two that daven for the opposite sides of WW1: Austrian Emperor and Russian Czar. I presume they had to publish those and also say it. I don;;t know whether masses supported it.
Now it could be a great time to ask Hashem to give wisdom to our government…November 18, 2021 7:19 am at 7:19 am #2030201
Avira > their slogans, identify as one כת or another
Agree 100%. When my kids were at schools, lots of kids were mindlessly quoting some right-wing slogans, sometimes in subtle conflict with secular teachers who more often than not were stock liberals. I watched several debates with the kids and half of them did not even figure out who I am voting for, as I wanted to expose them to the issues. I don’t think opinions without knowledge will protect them from anything in the future. Of course, they for Romney when they heard Obama saying that he will hire 100,000 extra math teachers!November 18, 2021 7:20 am at 7:20 am #2030202
ujm, a quick google search reveals a YWN article “Talmidim of the Philadelphia Yeshiva say the ‘Pledge of Allegiance’ and sing the National Anthem before their graduation ceremony.”
Stephen Flatow writes: .. late Rabbi Avigdor Miller. A student asked, “should we celebrate July 4th?” … He answered “yes,” in order to show we “appreciate the great gift of America.”
I also wonder about early yeshivos, and also times when observant children were going to public schools and were exposed to civics there.
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