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- This topic has 39 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 11 months, 3 weeks ago by n0mesorah.
June 10, 2022 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #2095297
Why are people so hung up on them (the same thing can be said about sports)June 10, 2022 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #2095414akupermaParticipant
Sports in entertaining, and often involves activities in which we could be, and have been, participants. If you ever hit a home run, or surprise bunt, and turned an unexpected double play (or even hit into a double play), you can appreciate what it is about.
Politics is somewhat similar. While much of what politicians do is prohibited by halacha (heck, we can’t even tell Lashon Ho’ra, not to mention make up insulting lies about people), what the politicians do does affect us, and those of other with a strong yetser ho’ra have all dreamed about being politicians (and in fairness, we can talk about politics but it isn’t respectable in our community to discuss becoming a robber or a serial killer or numerous other aveiras the discussion of which is not allowed).June 12, 2022 7:04 am at 7:04 am #2095648yungermanSParticipant
If people would just start to remember that every country and tiny city in the entire world is completely run and ruled directly by Hashem the king of kings ruler of the world and these people currently in political position offices and jobs are all just actors and messengers with a job from Hashem to complete then we wouldn’t be so attached to them and what their doing cause at the end of the day we all know the truth:
A)LEV MELOCHIM VESORIM BYAD HASHEM….. ALL RULERS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD ARE IN THE HANDS OF HASHEM AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN AT THE END OF THE DAY.
B)HAKOL BIDEI SHOMAYIM CHUTZ MIYIRAS SHOMAYIM…..
Everything is in the hands of Hashem except each person’s fear of Hashem (that’s between each person and Hashem directly)June 12, 2022 9:51 am at 9:51 am #2095694
Exactly yungermanSJune 12, 2022 10:09 am at 10:09 am #2095696Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Politics determines how the world is run and also, i nsome places, is expression of our common will. Both are clearly of Hashem’s interest. We know more about ancient kings from Tanach than from any other source.June 12, 2022 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #2095796
But to believe your party is ה׳s gift to humanity and the other party’s as the worst thing in the world?June 12, 2022 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #2095815yaakov doeParticipant
Sports are simply entertainment, far less harmless of the sports of the ancient Romans.
Politics effect the future of each one of us and is not entertainment but a participation sport.June 12, 2022 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #2095846Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
coffee > But to believe your party is ה׳s gift to humanity and the other party’s as the worst thing in the world?
Taht is avoda zora and lack of sechel and historical knowledge … We can obviously observe sonaei Isroel like commies and Nazis, but the rest – you never know …
I like Larry Summers explanation of predicting inflation or recession: economy is lkie a skidding car with driver trying to control it. You don’t know l’hathila whether it is going to fall in the left or right, or survive in the middle. Same is true with politics: a country can end up on hard right or hard left, or stay in the middle. We can help by not over-reacting, same as in skidding, and, of course, davening for Hashem to give leaders chochma.June 12, 2022 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #2095850GadolhadorahParticipant
AAQ: Larry Summers is one of the smartest guys in the Democratic party, although he doesn’t always endear himself to his left. He was predicting inflation over a year ago, argued strongly against the big Covid spending plans and ridiculed the Fed’s use of “transitory” in describing spiking price levels.June 12, 2022 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #2095851
“Taht is avoda zora and lack of sechel and historical knowledge … We can obviously observe sonaei Isroel like commies and Nazis, but the rest – you never know …“
I am exaggerating a tad but if you look at a lot of the comments in the cr “their” president can do no wrong and the other president is the worst president everJune 13, 2022 8:56 am at 8:56 am #2096013
Hashem really runs the world has zero political implications. He gives sustenance as he wills. As well as setting all the laws of existence. In the grand scheme, Republicans and Democrats are the same as the food chain or the mass-energy constant.June 13, 2022 8:56 am at 8:56 am #2096015
I think people get hung up on what they cannot grasp. If you could fully control it, you would be bored by it. Just like kids play imaginative games, because they are not aware of how to control their imagination. Some people never understand that, and their adulthood takes on a childish imagination in it’s preoccupation. They become cultists or conspiracy theorists, and thrive on the political fringe. You can find them on the deep of edge of sports too. Just there are too many unbreakable rules in sports. They consume gigantic amounts of non factual material. Movies, novels, comics, television, Disney, etc.June 13, 2022 8:56 am at 8:56 am #2096017
One doing a bad job, but the job nonetheless, can not be compared to the other not doing the job and promoting his own non stop grift.June 13, 2022 8:56 am at 8:56 am #2096019
Sports in specific and the arts in general, means more to stabilizing society than politics. I thought this goes without saying, as we just lived through it.June 13, 2022 9:18 am at 9:18 am #2096034
“One doing a bad job, but the job nonetheless”
Oh please tell me you aren’t using these words to describe Biden. Please. I don’t care how much you hate Trump but you can’t call the shambles we are living in in a “bad job”. I can’t even go to my car at night without worrying about danger, my grandson is almost out of formula, again, I can’t afford gas but was offered a job miles and miles from my house, there are mass shootings several times a week and the useless congress feels their most important issue is a one sided hearing with no cross examination of a former president cuz they are afraid the public may vote him in. Which by the way is interfering with elections. And yes, I’m simplifying but your statement is beyondJune 13, 2022 9:36 am at 9:36 am #2096039
The Constitution does not mandate The America Dream. Let alone your personal fantasies. The executive branch is fulfilling it’s role. For the first time in fifteen years. I hope our situation improves. Why do you think that is politically orchestrated? It looks like social decay to me. That’s the clergyman’s domain.June 13, 2022 10:17 am at 10:17 am #2096043
Absurd upteitch. Please don’t try that philosophy when parenting. Social decay. Cute.June 13, 2022 10:47 am at 10:47 am #2096063
“Why are people so hung up on them (the same thing can be said about sports)”
I think there’s a few things at play:
1. Non-Orthodox Jews have effectively replaced Judaism with liberal politics as their religion, and they have been loudly proclaiming this message for years. Abortion is a Jewish value! etc. This has prompted a backlash in the Torah community.
2. The NYC government has singled out the Jewish community multiple times over the past few years in a highly tone deaf and humiliating manner. Coupled with the rise in antisemitic attacks and a perceived failure to address the root cause of these attacks, the visibly Jewish community in NYC and surrounding areas feels ignored and hated by the local level Democratic party establishment.
3. Whether you loved or hated the Trump Administration, there was never such engagement with the frum community specifically at the Federal level as we saw during his presidency, and additionally Republican senators such as Ted Cruz have increasingly commented on issues affecting the frum community, which are unique from the non-Orthodox issues. Thus, Orthodox Jews are feeling seen and heard by Federal-level Republicans at the same time they are feeling ignored and marginalized by Democrats at all levels of government.June 13, 2022 11:10 am at 11:10 am #2096069
“The executive branch is fulfilling it’s role. For the first time in fifteen years”
What is the Biden Administration doing specifically to fulfill your idea of its role that neither the Trump or Obama Administrations did?June 13, 2022 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #2096104
Last week’s statement not to enforce gun control by executive order. As a long time senator, Biden understands that the Senate is the place for legal reforms, declarations of war, and ratifying treaties.June 13, 2022 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #2096110
Non-orthodox Jews believe in America’s religion of success at all costs.June 13, 2022 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm #2096107
Television is what decides America’s course. It’s the tv hosts, athletes, actors, and influencers, that decide the country’s value system. Elon Musk has created a pseudo religion. First on the left and now on the right. His fans can rightly be called worshippers.
MLK, Dolan, Sheen, and Falwell, were all huge public figures their day.June 13, 2022 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #2096158
“Last week’s statement not to enforce gun control by executive order.”
Seems to lack context. Trump had a considerably higher rate of EO issuance than Obama and Bush, but his rate was ~55 per year, and Biden issued 77 EOs during 2021, as well as 80 memorandums. Not to mention the private sector vaccination mandate through OSHA. I don’t see this return to a respect for the Legislative Branch that has been absent for the past few administrations that you see.
“As a long time senator, Biden understands that the Senate is the place for legal reforms, declarations of war, and ratifying treaties.”
An EO would remove the perceived political benefit of obstructionist Republicans, would serve as a lightning rod for conservatives, and would face immediate and likely successful legal challenges. I’m guessing political expediency stayed his hand more than a respect for the separation of powers.June 13, 2022 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #2096148
So your measure of the Biden administration fulfilling their role is by doing nothing? Well then, he’s been very successful indeed!
He’s done nothing to control rampant violent crime, nothing on the border invasion, nothing on runaway inflation, nothing on skyrocketing energy prices, nothing to alleviate supply chain issues, nothing to prevent baby formula shortages, nothing to deter Russia’s invasion, nothing to stop the Taliban from conquering Afghanistan, nothing to counter Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
You have the gall to lecture Syag about the Constitution and personal fantasies for wanting to be safe and solvent? Apologists like you are the real social decay that will hopefully be completely excised by the political root canal coming in November.
EditedJune 13, 2022 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #2096200
To start at the end, not political expediency, he just a bad executive. Maybe he’ll learn on the job. Maybe, not it may be possible.
It’s satire to compare the number of executive orders.
I think you get what I’m saying. You just disagree on the truth of it.June 13, 2022 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #2096204
I have a lot more gall than that, and it was a comment nothing like a lecture.
Please clarify. You think that your local punk is influenced by politicians, more than entertainers?
Presidents are supposed to fulfill their constitutional role. Not help you yell at your television. It is the clergy’s job to get you to turn off the television and find something to do with your life.
Now, Biden has turned out to be a crummy President. He could still improve. But let’s not whitewash his incompetence by putting together a made for tv list, that does not reflect reality.
1. The 80s and 90s demonstrated that successful crime stopping is at the local level. In cities, this the police commissioner and the mayor. You think Reagan also failed on crime?
2. Everything on migration in the last bunch of administrations has gone nowhere. This administration just put in place a major solution. Give it a chance to fall on it’s face.
3. If you go back to a year ago, the feds were saying that inflation would be temporary. Either they lied, or were wrong. What should have been done?
4. Biden has done a whole bunch to lower energy prices. Almost none of it helps. Saudi Arabia has the keys. And they dropped it off by Putin for safekeeping.
5. There has been slow work on supply chain issues. Our advocacy bureaucracy at it’s best. The pandemic did not wait for government input.
6. What could have been done to prevent the formula shortage? That’s old news. What about the current item shortage? Maybe you can preempt the next one.
7. A whole lot to deter Russia. Where were you? Unlike Obama or Trump, nobody thinks Biden is a god.
8. Afghanistan. It looks like a smart move now with Russia in Ukraine. First time this century, that America is not at war.
9. There is a lot going on with Iran. America does not feel threatened by them. Comparatively, their behaving.
Why didn’t you mention his low television ratings?June 13, 2022 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #2096218
I could care less about Brandon’s TV ratings. You answered questions 1-8 yourself by admitting that he did absolutely nothing. Regarding Iran, they are certainly not “comparatively behaving”. CNN just reported yesterday that they’re closer than ever to a nuclear weapon and they are a threat to the entire world.
Get your head out of the sand and stop defending gross incompetence.June 13, 2022 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #2096297
I’ll just comment on something Avram in MD said
“ Non-Orthodox Jews have effectively replaced Judaism with liberal politics as their religion, and they have been loudly proclaiming this message for years. Abortion is a Jewish value! etc. This has prompted a backlash in the Torah community.“
For Yaakov Shwekey to sing “we are America” instead of we are a miracle is making politics into a religionJune 13, 2022 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2096316
I’m not trying to defend your lack of political knowledge outside of tv punditry.
Iran is not committing human rights violations with the frequency of Saudi Arabia.
Iran is not involved in civil war by proxy to the extent of Saudi Arabia.
Iran is not helping Russia maintain a stronghold on energy prices. Which one country is……. I’ll leave it you to guess.
Biden has not been a great president. But he is not totally ignorant of politics like your average tv buffoon.
If I had enough sand, my head will definitely be in it. As for you, please do not get your politics out of the television.June 13, 2022 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #2096317
I hear your point.
So back to the first post…….
Why are people so hung up on sports? I assume this means fan culture. Now, most ardent fans of teams and clubs, don’t care about the general sport. They do not enjoy the contest as much as seeing ‘their’ team win. Does this not carry over well to politics?June 13, 2022 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #2096348GadolhadorahParticipant
Too many gadolim on this board…getting very confused as to what I didn’t say, what I didn’t know and when I didn’t know it.June 14, 2022 12:18 am at 12:18 am #2096359
It does (and that was my point)
And you asked it very well
WHY is it like that? Why do people need to identify themselves with something in order to feel good about themselves?June 14, 2022 12:18 am at 12:18 am #2096361
Iran is one of the world’s most repressive regimes to its own citizens, aside from being a major supporter of terrorism worldwide and actively attempting to acquire a nuclear weapon. They are also supporting the other side of the proxy war in Yemen. The fact that you could even defend them demonstrates incredible naivete on your part, at best.
Saudi Arabia has been slowly implementing reforms and warming in its relationship to Israel, albeit due to their common enemy.
I don’t own a TV but it’s obvious that you’re glued to one based on the incoherent word salad you often spew.June 14, 2022 1:11 am at 1:11 am #2096398
getting very confused as to what I didn’t say, what I didn’t know and when I didn’t know it.
Oh gosh! Agreed! I was scratching my head over that one until you explained it for me.June 14, 2022 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2096505Reb EliezerParticipant
It should be in the positive. What did he know, when did he say it and when did he know it? A negative cannot be proven.June 14, 2022 10:19 am at 10:19 am #2096520
“For Yaakov Shwekey to sing “we are America” instead of we are a miracle is making politics into a religion”
I think the lyric was “we love America”. I wasn’t commenting on the correctness of the explosion of political expression over the past 5-10 years, just what I perceive to be the causes.June 14, 2022 10:37 am at 10:37 am #2096536ujmParticipant
N0m: Iran commits much worse and more frequent human rights violations and supporting terrorism by proxy than Saudia Arabia.June 14, 2022 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #2096581
I don’t see politics making people feel good about themselves. It makes them feel good about something else. But the question could be expanded to, why do people prefer a political portrayal of the facts? I mean that we do not need any government to have an opinion on abortion. And the range of possible opinions, is rather large. Yet, we talk in a pro or anti language and believe we sound intelligent for it. Or, at least more intelligent than the other Ride. What does that do for us? It seems like denial – denial that we do not fully grasp what goes on outside our daled amos.June 14, 2022 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #2096632
“ I don’t see politics making people feel good about themselves. It makes them feel good about something else. “
And when people say Trump is a megalomaniac or tweets too much and that’s why I didn’t support him” or “Biden is senile and Harris is evil I’m glad I didn’t vote for them” that makes them feel good about something else?June 14, 2022 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #2096694
Yes or No.
Yes. It makes them feel good that complexities can be simplified. Or that there is a clear distinction between the good and the bad. Really just pick any sociological copout that cuts around the harshness of reality.
No. It makes them feel good about themselves that avoided all the punditry to a clear conscience or some other feeling oriented goal.
No. They say that because they believe it to be the truth.
Alternately, they say because others do.
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