February 3, 2013 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #608064
I figured out how to convince anybody of anything. All you need to do is build a complicated moshol about it, and make is so convoluted that nobody can figure out what you are trying to say, and then you simply trick them into agreeing with you!
It works every time.February 3, 2013 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #967613Veltz MeshugenerMember
I don’t get it. Mesholim don’t prove anything, they simply demonstrate things. To prove that this is the case, let me give you the following moshol: Once there was a person who said that he would prove something, but he didn’t prove it; he just gave a moshol to it. The people that heard the moshol were not convinced. So too over here.February 3, 2013 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #967614Torah613TorahParticipant
At least you can twist the analogy right back at ’em. I did not appreciate my words being twisted there.February 3, 2013 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #967615
I’m not impressed by any moshol that doesn’t have a king, and preferably a naughty prince, in it.
VM, spot on.February 3, 2013 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #967616oh brotherMember
A mashal is not supposed to prove something – it’s meant to open your mind to another perspective by comparing the situation to something else. Sometimes it’s helpful to take a step back and see things from a different angle.
On a second note, the CR is an awful place to try to prove or convince anyone of anything. That’s because the people who post here are by-and-large stubborn people who already made up their minds. My belief is that it’s still important to share thoughts because some things just need to be said in order to open people’s minds to the idea that maybe there is another perspective out there. Unfortunately, I have found that the chareidi world, as a whole, has closed its mind so tightly that we have lost all perspective – there’s only one right way & I’ve got the monopoly on it! “Even” the great Torah scholars of our Mishnah, Gemara, etc understood & accepted the idea that it’s perfectly OK for others to disagree with me.February 3, 2013 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #967617
Yes, and non-charedim are constantly conceding to charedim, since they’re so open minded, right?February 4, 2013 12:49 am at 12:49 am #967618supermeMember
Oh brother- the problem here isthat not everyone that posts r the same meaning someare modern, chassisish, litfish,libavitch etc so we hold different minhaggimFebruary 4, 2013 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #967619oh brotherMember
DaasYochid – I agree with you that there are intolerant people on all sides. However, we are the G-d fearing religious ones. That brings more responsibility on us. Interesting (and unbelievably beautiful) thing about Judaism: In Judaism we don’t hold by the concept that I have rights or “something that I deserve.” Instead, we talk about our obligations. In other words, you don’t have the right to be treated with respect. Instead, it’s my responsibility to treat you with respect. This concept is a game-changer. We must always think about our responsibilities toward others and toward Hashem, not about our rights. I have the responsibility NOT to take money that isn’t mine or meant for me. It’s NOT that I deserve the money and it’s just a matter of me taking it because it should have been mine anyways.
superme – yes, that’s the beauty of Hashem’s Torah world – we are all different and with different minhagim. Shiv’im panim laTorah. The problem is that when we close our minds so tightly, we become stubborn as a people to see another side to the story. As many people have noted – the chareidi society has developed this way as a way to protect the people and the Torah. From that standpoint it’s a good thing but there has been a cost that should not be ignored. Judaism does not advocate a life of poverty like the non-Jews believe with monks & nuns. Hashem gives us halachot on how to earn a respectful living and He also gives us economic rules in the world that we must follow. In other words, if Hashem tells us that these are the ways to earn a decent living for our families in 2013, then we need to take that to heart. We can see this from each of the Avot and Gedolim throughout our history – they all studied and worked. Again, this doesn’t mean we should just work and still live in poverty because our jobs don’t earn enough. It’s our mandatory hishtadlus to look into the facts of how to earn a respectable living and strive toward that.February 4, 2013 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #967620
DaasYochid – I agree with you that there are intolerant people on all sides.
I’m glad to see that you agree with me on that. This was not reflected in your previous post.
I think it’s a bit simple-minded to think that the chareidi lifestyle is based on not seeing both perspectives. Your implication that writing your (admittedly inaccurate) moshol will change our minds by enlightening us with a new perspective which we have never contemplated, is both naive and condescending.February 4, 2013 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #967621
I didn’t mean for you to bring your abstract argument over here.February 7, 2013 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #967622Shoe store assistantMember
Mosholim are a classic way to bring out a point, but as they say ?? ?????? ?????? so i guess that they are not for everyone.July 24, 2013 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #967623July 24, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #967624
I see that the other Popa thread (Why is Popa crazy?) has vanished. Popa works for YW (or owns it), so he can remove threads as he pleases.
Popa hates me (he never replies to my posts), because I’m perceptive, I figure out stuff.July 24, 2013 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #967625
Popa works for YW (or owns it), so he can remove threads as he pleases.
that thread was around for a year before it got dredged up, so i dont think thats it:). more like popa “figured out” how to get a little too personal so they deleted the whole thread instead of the post…
so we replace it with this:
p.s. nothing personal popa…honest:)
🙂 BUMP 🙂July 24, 2013 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #967626
The vanished thread was called: “Is Popa Crazy?” (started by Popa and deleted by Popa)July 24, 2013 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #967627
Who is iBump, another one on YW’s payroll?July 25, 2013 3:21 am at 3:21 am #967629
Popa hates me (he never replies to my posts), because I’m perceptive, I figure out stuff.
ibump: thanks for bumping!July 25, 2013 9:10 am at 9:10 am #967630
See, Popa never talks TO me (his post was ABOUT me)July 25, 2013 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #967631
ibump: thanks for bumping!
any time popa, any time:)
🙂 Bump 🙂July 25, 2013 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #967632WIYMember
iburp: thanks for burping!July 25, 2013 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #967633
🙂 Bump 🙂
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